Culture Clash in terms of ISLAM

[****PRINCE****]

Assalam Alaykum bros and sista

B4 i ask my question please dnt be rude or argue.What i want to know is... wots r ur views about A MUSLIM born in brought up in PAKI-LAND/INDIAN orwotver ( PAKISTAN) and one in UK(BRITISH).

I live with a Freshy (wid due respect;) )from back home and me being British (BBCD =Bristish Born Confused Desi's:rolleyes: ) used to think freshies are backwards and him being a a PAKI used to think that we british muslims are Twisted and taking our religion backwards as our religion was and is suppose to be the most advanced religion ever.

I dnt no if you ever watch Skins on E4 last nyt but he used to think that athe character answer is like us britains and the british ppl tht i kno thing tht freshies are backwards proud av ego problem women beaters etc.


Even if over there the women are wearin jeans or shorts or open neck Ts or the women over here wearing Hijaab and proper Veil for their respect.

but both my friend and I have one thing in common that is ISLAM..and our both Iman(faith)/belief standing on the 5 pillars of Islam. in some cases we think alike, his opinion about brit born ppl changed and my opinion abt pakies are changed
so why is it tht in our heads ISLAM is the same but our opinions about other muslims are complety different b'coz of where they come from and wot they are?

is it coz of
Relgion
Culture
People with narrow mentality
or Something Else

This post is to bring us people(muslims or even if ur not) closer to each other than to make us ran away...

Please leave your opinions,comments or experiences.
P.s AND no dissing PAKIES or BRIT
P.s.s Try sticking together insha allah
Jazak Allah Khair

[alialiyan]

good point brother....been through this experiance myself and it was me generalising and stereotyping everyone..fact is we are all indviduals and Islam is what we have in common, even then the way we follow islam and the schools of thoughts and scholars we follow,... we end up arguing about who is right when what really we shud be doing is learning and following what we thing is right and letting the other do it their way and having healthy adult like discussion. We shudnt have to say this is right and that is wrong jsut give ur reasings and proof and leave rest to Allah...he is the decider of right and wrong

[`asiya]

I think this generalisation is a huge poison in our ummah today,and it breaks my heart to hear it, as a convert to Islam i have often been told that my "western" upbringing means i could never marry someone other than a convert because i wouldnt understand the culture, but i really dont know what people are talking about when they say this because our culture is Islam.

What made me dispair the most is that when i married what is referred to by some as a "freshie" ( an arab one yes a practising muslim too) he expected me to be like some of the western kuffar women, and asked things of me that were unislamic, and from the kuffar thinking that because i was western born and raised that i would accept such things,like wanting me to go out and work and provide for him, while he kept all his wages for himself, not allowing me to have children and even expecting that i would wouldnt have any problems with contraception and abortion because "its nothing in the west and "allowed" in Islam" telling me to throw my children out of the house when they reach puberty "because thats what the kuffar do" and he even thought he had the right Islamically as a husband to impose his views about my supposed "culture" on me, so actually the marriage failed because he wanted me to be westernised, and i expected both him and I to leave all cultural issues far behind, and we just both have Islam and what Allah and his messenger salallahu alleyhi wa salam say as our culture.

I think this whole issue of culture orientated issues, and generalisations are just a complete poison in our ummah. having spent 7 years studying and living with hindus before coming to Islam, i see so much of the hindu culture and traditions in some muslims today which makes me very sad but perhaps its easier for me to see having come from outside into Islam, anyway i think we all should bin the cultural stuff because its what brings so much divide in the ummah, and just be islamic and be muslims insha Allah.

as one egyptian sister said to me "the problem is because they were raised as muslims they think that everything from their culture is islamic, when in fact its not from Islam at all"

[$HugoBoss$]

All i know is that we shouldn't mix culture and islam because it wouldn't be islam anymore. Some people treat there culture bigger than islam, it's true because indian/pakistani parents are not good role models as muslims in the majority as far as i know. This directly affects the children.

[Al-Irhaab]

All i know is that we shouldn't mix culture and islam because it wouldn't be islam anymore. Some people treat there culture bigger than islam, it's true because indian/pakistani parents are not good role models as muslims in the majority as far as i know. This directly affects the children.

and you think muslims in the west are? :rubeyes:

[$HugoBoss$]

and you think muslims in the west are? :rubeyes:

How does this concern the west again???? Were talking about culture vs islam, it's a global issue.

[Al-Irhaab]

How does this concern the west again???? Were talking about culture vs islam, it's a global issue.

it concerns the west because the discussions was abt freshies and bbcds :scratch: unless im getting the wrong thread....

anyway fact of the matter is most muslims in the west mix western culture with islam and most muslims in india/paki/bang mix eastern culture with islam.... until you live in an islamic enviroment that is what you gonna see happen en masse.... the only difference that i see is that some of the pak culture is shirk... so you got to be careful.. but then again the hard core practicing types in pakland are mostly better then anyone youl see here in the west... so its a split...

[$HugoBoss$]

it concerns the west because the discussions was abt freshies and bbcds :scratch: unless im getting the wrong thread....

anyway fact of the matter is most muslims in the west mix western culture with islam and most muslims in india/paki/bang mix eastern culture with islam.... until you live in an islamic enviroment that is what you gonna see happen en masse.... the only difference that i see is that some of the pak culture is shirk... so you got to be careful.. but then again the hard core practicing types in pakland are mostly better then anyone youl see here in the west... so its a split...

I get your point but i see it as a global issue like you've said the western and eastern cultures have mixed with islamic beliefs and teachings and have taken twists and turns for nothing but confusion in the minds of the muslim youth.

[Kal-El]

I think this generalisation is a huge poison in our ummah today,and it breaks my heart to hear it, as a convert to Islam i have often been told that my "western" upbringing means i could never marry someone other than a convert because i wouldnt understand the culture, but i really dont know what people are talking about when they say this because our culture is Islam.

What made me dispair the most is that when i married what is referred to by some as a "freshie" ( an arab one yes a practising muslim too) he expected me to be like some of the western kuffar women, and asked things of me that were unislamic, and from the kuffar thinking that because i was western born and raised that i would accept such things,like wanting me to go out and work and provide for him, while he kept all his wages for himself, not allowing me to have children and even expecting that i would wouldnt have any problems with contraception and abortion because "its nothing in the west and "allowed" in Islam" telling me to throw my children out of the house when they reach puberty "because thats what the kuffar do" and he even thought he had the right Islamically as a husband to impose his views about my supposed "culture" on me, so actually the marriage failed because he wanted me to be westernised, and i expected both him and I to leave all cultural issues far behind, and we just both have Islam and what Allah and his messenger salallahu alleyhi wa salam say as our culture.

I think this whole issue of culture orientated issues, and generalisations are just a complete poison in our ummah. having spent 7 years studying and living with hindus before coming to Islam, i see so much of the hindu culture and traditions in some muslims today which makes me very sad but perhaps its easier for me to see having come from outside into Islam, anyway i think we all should bin the cultural stuff because its what brings so much divide in the ummah, and just be islamic and be muslims insha Allah.

as one egyptian sister said to me "the problem is because they were raised as muslims they think that everything from their culture is islamic, when in fact its not from Islam at all"

Sorry if it's inappropiate, but this explains alot consider your views on contraception. You've come short to actually saying its point blank haram, with the way you expressed your views on it. I always thought there was a personal layer under it, but never thought of it..I'm sorry to hear of your experience.

[`asiya]

it concerns the west because the discussions was abt freshies and bbcds :scratch: unless im getting the wrong thread....

anyway fact of the matter is most muslims in the west mix western culture with islam and most muslims in india/paki/bang mix eastern culture with islam.... until you live in an islamic enviroment that is what you gonna see happen en masse.... the only difference that i see is that some of the pak culture is shirk... so you got to be careful.. but then again the hard core practicing types in pakland are mostly better then anyone youl see here in the west... so its a split...

see what i mean, is there then is no hope for western converts due to the circumstance of their birth, can we then never be as good as a pakistani born muslim there just no hope for us it seems according to some muslims.what a shame for us that we werent born in pakistan....may Allah help us

[`asiya]

Sorry if it's inappropiate, but this explains alot consider your views on contraception. You've come short to actually saying its point blank haram, with the way you expressed your views on it. I always thought there was a personal layer under it, but never thought of it..I'm sorry to hear of your experience.

akhi its not about my personal preference its about religious teaching, see i was raised as a catholic christian and in that religion its forbidden to use contraception, because the whole point of marriage is to raise God fearing children, but many christians today ignore this teaching so they can do as they please and not have the responsability of children.

so when i came to Islam and read that we should marry and have as many children as we can, because Muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam said marry the one who is loving and fertile, and how we should have many children to increase the ummah to make muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salams ummah the largest on the day of judgment.

I was very happy to see that marriage and the importance of family were at the heart of Islamic teachings, because i have seen the evil that goes on in my society due to this kind of thinking and how the widespread use of contraception in order to try allow them to do as they please with no responsaiblty towards marriage and the family, the spread of disease due to that, unwanted children and pregnancys, and promiscuity etc. so what a horrible shock it is for me to find that muslims are advocating using contraception and trying to put off and prevent having children to persue worldy persuits, and some husbands/ wives are even denying their wives/husband children, ( which is forbidden as it is the right of each to have children) and then when their wives get pregnant despite all their efforts to prevent that ( because as muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam said [when the shabba was pracitsed azl with his slave girl and then she became pregnant anyway] he said why would any of you do that ? ( azl) dont you know that Allah creates whom he wills! ) then these muslims they tell their wives to go and get an abortion ( because some claim that they can mutilate the body of a child that has no soul in it before 120 days)

but then as Muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam said there will be some of my ummah who will follow them down the lizard holes, and the sahabba asked follow who the christians and the jews? and Muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam said, who else? and indeed thats what many are doing today following the western world in this, because even in traditional christian teaching contraception is forbidden, and even the christians have deserted their teachings on that issue, and now the muslims are following them in that . like i said our culture should be islamic and the islamic way is to have as many children as possible insha Allah.

[alialiyan]

it concerns the west because the discussions was abt freshies and bbcds :scratch: unless im getting the wrong thread....

anyway fact of the matter is most muslims in the west mix western culture with islam and most muslims in india/paki/bang mix eastern culture with islam.... until you live in an islamic enviroment that is what you gonna see happen en masse.... the only difference that i see is that some of the pak culture is shirk... so you got to be careful.. but then again the hard core practicing types in pakland are mostly better then anyone youl see here in the west... so its a split...

I agree with this ..its like i said befor... generalising. good and bad in all parts of world.

[Ceren]

:salams

Islam was never a "monolythic" thing after the prophet. If you see the history of Islam, you'll see that there were disagreements from the beginning, and many times in history Muslims have killed other Muslims.

Many disagreements are based on culture and many based on theological differences.

When I think about the prophet, and if he could see the way we treat each other now, and the way we handle our differences... it makes me very sad.

I pray to Allah that he instill mercy and compassion for one another, and make us love one another besides our differences.

[Medievalist]

:

When I think about the prophet, and if he could see the way we treat each other now, and the way we handle our differences... it makes me very sad.

I pray to Allah that he instill mercy and compassion for one another, and make us love one another besides our differences.

This coming from the one who abused an ALLAH-Wali form the tribal belt in Pakistan :scratch:

[Medievalist]

Asiyah:

I think you need to accept that when people talk its with a general idea and not being specific. Speaking generally I dont think I'd ever marry a convert muslimah cos aspects of culture european/afro-caribbean/indian whatever I wudnt be comfortable with but then at the same time I accept that there will be exceptions. That perhaps there are convert muslimahs who I could get on with - but life is about speaking generally innit.

We cant sit all day and be specific about everything cos then we wouldnt be able to talk abt anything !!

And I dont think Al-Irhaab intended to slight any1 from a non-paki background by his comments. He was just saying how some pakistani muslims who are strong on the deen are mashaALLAH very good . :)

[****PRINCE****]

on behalf of my friend...
im born and bred in pakistan but never thoguht of these things untill i came over here. I dnt no my mind does not even accept marrying a converted muslim. i dnt know why but thts true coz i might want my wife living with me in pakistan in my house with my whole family (mom dad bros sis etc)

It always comes to my mind that she would not fit in my family and culture.

how will my family react with this news that im going to marry a converted woman. Its the same thing she also got a family and culture. Her family might not accept me or I dont like her family. That would be the contradictions of living together. will she be able to spend her life in my country. the assumable answer is NO its the same from my side I m wont be spendin my whole life over here.

Ppl chase over things that they dont have because they never feel contended/Satisfied.

just thought i share my friends views with you... me on the other hand
i dnt no i aint fussed i mite marry a convert but thts coz im born here and fink i can handle it.

i fink all those muslims who aare born as muslims shud studying islam jus like how the converts do...because we are bron with islam we take it for granted.

those who com to islam wid nothing research and study it i think we shud do tht aswell...
It doesnt matter whose culture is bad or good... we should instead try to pick the good culture from both sides and improve overselves aswell as reading more into islam. (and avoid the bad culture and stay away from it).. and learn from each others mistakes rather than pointing fingers.

This will insha allah make us better muslim and better human being and a better ummah

[alialiyan]

true brother..Yesterday at work as usual i was bored and was reading ummah posts..when i came across one about suni and shia and differant sects.

From that I thought I want to know about the differant schools of thoughts. And learnt about the four schools of thought. But i decided i will stop there as I need to study basics about islam befor i go indept and see which school of thought i wud like to follow.

I think its important for us muslims born as muslims to learn more about islam ...I agree with u we take it for granted