Pakistanis take note!

[Aseer]

The family of Sahal Abdi-kafi no longer talk to him following his wedding to his long-time girlfriend Zamzam Ahmed, a member of Somalia's lower caste Yahar community.





Despite his family's strong disapproval, the couple went ahead with their marriage, encouraged by an edict from the Islamist group which has taken control of the capital, Mogadishu, and much of southern Somalia this year after 15 years of lawlessness.
Sahal and Zamzam had been seeing each other secretly for five years but neither ever really believed their romantic dream would end in marriage.
"We were very different - in lifestyle, in thinking, in tastes," said Sahal, who runs a big electronics shop in Mogadishu's main Bakara Market and who comes from a prominent family of merchants.
In contrast, Zamzam's father has died and her mother sells the popular stimulant khat.
"Yet we fell in love, we expected the heavens to fall when my parents would come to know of our affair, we expected the worst and were prepared for the worst," Salal says.

After centuries of deep divisions, cross caste weddings like Sahal and Zamzam's are now becoming more common.

Prejudice
Union of Islamic Courts leader Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed recently said Somalis should marry good Muslims, whatever caste they were from, in an effort to break down centuries of prejudice.
"Islam recommends choosing your partner according to whether they follow their religion and whether they are of good character but not because of their social level," he said.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif

Sahal, 35, supports the Islamists and says Mr Ahmed's speech convinced him to go ahead with the wedding, despite his parents' opposition.
Somalia's caste system is extremely complicated.
While some members of the lower castes, such as the Yahar, Midgan, Eyle, Boon, say they face constant discrimination, several members have risen to occupy prominent positions in society.
Many members of the lower castes perform jobs such as metal-working, hunting with dogs, shoe-making and hairdressing.
Marriage is the area where traditional prejudices remain strongest, with men who marry lower caste women often ostracised by their families.

Beloved
Sahal knew his family would be upset by the wedding and felt unable to tell them that he and Zamzam had gone ahead and tied the knot.
When he did break the news, his father immediately told him to divorce his new wife and choose another, higher caste, woman.

"My parents promised me they would pay a large amount of money for the cost of my wedding if I married a woman of my caste, but I could not disown my beloved one," he said.
"She is beautiful, polite, obedient to me, pious and God-fearing, so there was no reason not to marry her."
Zamzam says she only knew that she loved Sahal and never thought about their difference in social background.
She said it was beyond her wildest dreams to see herself sharing a life with Sahal.
"Love knows no age, no caste, and no creed. There can be no other explanation why Sahal could have fallen in love with me," she said.
"However, he married me against the wishes of his parents, jeopardising his relations with his relatives and friends and that of the community he comes from," she added. "Finally, he was mine and I was his. Sometimes life is indeed like a Bollywood movie," she said, smiling.

[-Shamil-]

i thought it was indians who had castes - like the "untouchabes" and all that..

[miss-ali]

what do you mean by "pakis take note" ?

[Aseer]

i thought it was indians who had castes - like the "untouchabes" and all that..

Pakis too!

[-Shamil-]

what do you mean by "pakis take note" ?


pakis take note innit


i thought it was indians who had castes - like the "untouchabes" and all that..


are there "untouchables" in pakistan too? i cant imagine any muslim society acting like that :(

[miss-ali]

pakis take note innit




are there "untouchables" in pakistan too? i cant imagine any muslim society acting like that :(
that is so much more clearer now thanks

[Aseer]

are there "untouchables" in pakistan too? i cant imagine any muslim society acting like that :(


Dont know about 'untouchables' etc but yeah, pakistan they have a caste system, from the article in somalia they have it too, but Alhamdulillah the sharia is setting it straight!

[Muttaqi]

pakis take note innit




are there "untouchables" in pakistan too? i cant imagine any muslim society acting like that :(


Problems arise when Muslims choose to imitate the hindus (i.e. many pakis)

[-Shamil-]

that is so much more clearer now thanks

take note



Dont know about 'untouchables' etc but yeah, pakistan they have a caste system, from the article in somalia they have it too, but Alhamdulillah the sharia is setting it straight!


good stuff

someone needs to sort pakistan out next

[miss-ali]

[QUOTE=Basayev;1520106]take note


take another note, similar to the really helpful note previously... well ok then.

[-Shamil-]

take note innit dont forget

[Aseer]

take note




good stuff

someone needs to sort pakistan out next

Anyone but Busharraf!

[miss-ali]

take note innit dont forget
wow all this note taking is making my head spin.. innit:rolleyes:

[-Shamil-]

take an aspirin innit

[miss-ali]

you are full of amazin advice, y'know your are a very wise person...

[-Shamil-]

innit

[miss-ali]

innit
yehhh innit:rolleyes:

[Aseer]

innit

is it?

[-Shamil-]

is it?

i think so - ali thinks im wise innit

[Aseer]

i think so - ali thinks im wise innit

If she thinks your wise then it probably is innit!

[-Shamil-]

If she thinks your wise then it probably is innit!

lol innit

[Abdelrhman]

:salams

ey cherio innit

[mohammad1]

dears all pakis are not like that....

[mara]

that is so much more clearer now thanksI could not understand either this take notes but has a double meaning, at least:
1. The system can be break- there are couples who moved beyond this caste thing and married, and they have a good life (at least they are content by their choices)
2. The parents are still against it and if you are going thourgh this "caste thing" you might loose them for good.Basically you have to choose : she or them. And the parents can ruin a marriage, if they wish to do that.
So has positive and negative sides too.:)

[mara]

dears all pakis are not like that....Right now we are talking about those who should take notes...so they still fall in the caste system. I know in Pakistan are lot of land marriages and debts marriages...few are based on love. Mostly are ran by interests like jobs, fortune, education and so on.

[Refugee]

Pakis too!

really - wow i never knew that *Roll Eyes*

[-Shamil-]

bloomin' pakis :55:

[MangoChutney]

bloomin' pakis :55:

Oiii

*sharpens knife*

----

you'll find a caste system in nearly all societies...and when there is a caste system, there is bound to be a Romeo and a Juliet, Devdas and a Paro, Layla and Majnu. :D

[Refugee]

bloomin' pakis :55:

Oii

*Reloads* :badguy:

[-Shamil-]

Oiii

*sharpens knife*



Oii

*Reloads* :badguy:


typical violent pakis :55:

[Na'eemah]

Problems arise when Muslims choose to imitate the hindus (i.e. many pakis)

And Indian muslims too seeing as they live in a country with a hindu majority :rolleyes:

[Refugee]

typical violent pakis :55:

lol .... looks talking *Roll Eyes*

[-Shamil-]

looks talking *Roll Eyes*


Who is look? *Roll Eyes*

[MangoChutney]

Who is look? *Roll Eyes*

leave him alone!...he's a Refugee...can't you see...?:torture:

[-Shamil-]

leave him alone!...he's a Refugee...can't you see...?:torture:


:crying: :(

[Na'eemah]

Enough of the racism and stereotyping. :torture:

[Desipower]

The family of Sahal Abdi-kafi no longer talk to him following his wedding to his long-time girlfriend Zamzam Ahmed, a member of Somalia's lower caste Yahar community.


Despite his family's strong disapproval, the couple went ahead with their marriage, encouraged by an edict from the Islamist group which has taken control of the capital, Mogadishu, and much of southern Somalia this year after 15 years of lawlessness.

Sahal and Zamzam had been seeing each other secretly for five years but neither ever really believed their romantic dream would end in marriage.
"We were very different - in lifestyle, in thinking, in tastes," said Sahal, who runs a big electronics shop in Mogadishu's main Bakara Market and who comes from a prominent family of merchants.
In contrast, Zamzam's father has died and her mother sells the popular stimulant khat.
"Yet we fell in love, we expected the heavens to fall when my parents would come to know of our affair, we expected the worst and were prepared for the worst," Salal says.

After centuries of deep divisions, cross caste weddings like Sahal and Zamzam's are now becoming more common.

Prejudice
Union of Islamic Courts leader Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed recently said Somalis should marry good Muslims, whatever caste they were from, in an effort to break down centuries of prejudice.
"Islam recommends choosing your partner according to whether they follow their religion and whether they are of good character but not because of their social level," he said.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif

Sahal, 35, supports the Islamists and says Mr Ahmed's speech convinced him to go ahead with the wedding, despite his parents' opposition.
Somalia's caste system is extremely complicated.
While some members of the lower castes, such as the Yahar, Midgan, Eyle, Boon, say they face constant discrimination, several members have risen to occupy prominent positions in society.
Many members of the lower castes perform jobs such as metal-working, hunting with dogs, shoe-making and hairdressing.
Marriage is the area where traditional prejudices remain strongest, with men who marry lower caste women often ostracised by their families.

Beloved
Sahal knew his family would be upset by the wedding and felt unable to tell them that he and Zamzam had gone ahead and tied the knot.
When he did break the news, his father immediately told him to divorce his new wife and choose another, higher caste, woman.

"My parents promised me they would pay a large amount of money for the cost of my wedding if I married a woman of my caste, but I could not disown my beloved one," he said.
"She is beautiful, polite, obedient to me, pious and God-fearing, so there was no reason not to marry her."
Zamzam says she only knew that she loved Sahal and never thought about their difference in social background.
She said it was beyond her wildest dreams to see herself sharing a life with Sahal.
"Love knows no age, no caste, and no creed. There can be no other explanation why Sahal could have fallen in love with me," she said.
"However, he married me against the wishes of his parents, jeopardising his relations with his relatives and friends and that of the community he comes from," she added. "Finally, he was mine and I was his. Sometimes life is indeed like a Bollywood movie," she said, smiling.

Maybe the parents were against it becuase of the haraam relationship they were in. Maybe the caste was just a front to stop their HARAAM relationship. They live in fantasy world. Having dating for 5yrs then wanting to get married. And this is africa, why should pakistanis take notes?

Who ever wrote this article needs to go to Pakistan and see what those people are, they've become in more modern then Americans.

Pakistani caste system is more based on their ancestral heritage. a son of a ruler marries the nobles only, servants marry servants, locksmiths marry locksmiths, or castes that were equal to each other or close to each other like locksmith, carpenter, farmer, married across castes. And the people married in their own castes becuase these castes were like social class where your class has more similarities and therefore better compatibilities.

Hindu castes are more based on whose more pure than the other, going from top the bahrams (who did as they pleased) to the untouchables (the "low" life). Their caste system is based on most pure to least impure. A whole different caste system.

Pakistani caste system is permitted in Islam becuase you are permitted to marry within your own tribe only if you want, where as Hindu caste system is unisalmic becuase only Allah knows whose more pure than the other.

I give this article 2 thumbs down. :torture:

[-Shamil-]

Who ever wrote this article needs to go to Pakistan and see what those people are, they've become in more modern then Americans.

Pakistani caste system is more based on their ancestral heritage. a son of a ruler marries the nobles only, servants marry servants, locksmiths marry locksmiths, or castes that were equal to each other or close to each other like locksmith, carpenter, farmer, married across castes. And the people married in their own castes becuase these castes were like social class where your class has more similarities and therefore better compatibilities.





it all seems a bit irrelevant.

why cant a servant marry a locksmith or a noble marry a carpenter? if they can marry each other, then whats the point of the class system?

i got a part-time job in B&Q - what caste does that put me in?:D

i wanna marry a noble

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

it all seems a bit irrelevant.

why cant a servant marry a locksmith or a noble marry a carpenter? if they can marry each other, then whats the point of the class system?

i got a part-time job in B&Q - what caste does that put me in?:D

i wanna marry a noble

but im not a sister :p

[Desipower]

it all seems a bit irrelevant.

why cant a servant marry a locksmith or a noble marry a carpenter? if they can marry each other, then whats the point of the class system?

i got a part-time job in B&Q - what caste does that put me in?:D

i wanna marry a noble

Those were the old days, when there were monarchs in India/pakistan and what not. Now what we have is the social status class system, which exists in every society. :rolleyes:

[Refugee]

Enough of the racism and stereotyping. :torture:

thank you

[Refugee]

Who is look? *Roll Eyes*

i am sorry mr perfect - its not like you have never ever made any mistakes :torture: *Roll Eyes*

[Kal-El]

Using Somali's as an example when it comes to weddings or marriage is plain ignorance. There is something very wrong with our culture.

[Refugee]

Using Somali's as an example when it comes to weddings or marriage is plain ignorance. There is something very wrong with our culture.


like what :p

[Kal-El]

like what :p

I don't to drivel about the flaws of my people.

P.S. Stop using my font you thief

[Refugee]

I don't to drivel about the flaws of my people.

P.S. Stop using my font you thief

your font? wht are you talking about :p

[scribble]

your font? wht are you talking about :p

You're such a kid. :rolleyes: :p

[Refugee]

You're such a kid. :rolleyes: :p

look whose talking. :rolleyes: :p

[scribble]

look whose talking. :rolleyes: :p

Who? The Pizza dude?

[miss-ali]

Using Somali's as an example when it comes to weddings or marriage is plain ignorance. There is something very wrong with our culture.

ey up whats wrong with somalis? i DEMAND an explanation - not really i merely ask very very politely for one :D

[Fais]

ey up whats wrong with somalis? i DEMAND an explanation - not really i merely ask very very politely for one :D

.... What you gonna do about it :rolleyes:

[miss-ali]

.... What you gonna do about it :rolleyes:
oi you, what am i going to do about, absolutely nothing thats what!

[Fais]

oi you, what am i going to do about, absolutely nothing thats what!

Good .. now put a sock in it :rofl1: ... :p ... im joking :D

[miss-ali]

Good .. now put a sock in it :rofl1: ... :p ... im joking :D
my lips are sealed....but my eyes watery..:crying: . :torture: times a hundred to yours truly...only joking :D

[-Shamil-]

Those were the old days, when there were monarchs in India/pakistan and what not. Now what we have is the social status class system, which exists in every society. :rolleyes:
so can a carpenter marry someone from another caste or is it frowned upon?

what if the carpenter changes his job and becomes a ballerina - has his caste changed?

i still dont understand why its so important - seems irrelevant at the moment


Using Somali's as an example when it comes to weddings or marriage is plain ignorance. There is something very wrong with our culture.


theres something wrong with most cultures that i have seen - not only somalis

i am sorry mr perfect - its not like you have never ever made any mistakes :torture: *Roll Eyes*

:(
refugee no make it good poll

[Fais]

my lips are sealed....but my eyes watery..:crying: . :torture: times a hundred to yours truly...only joking :D

Sorry :D ...

[miss-ali]

Sorry :D ...
yada yada

[humble]

ive only read title and 1st paragraph but no such thing as cast in islam, you could argue that in the prophets time there were tribes but thsi whole cast thing annoys me

your a muslim or not

its stupid cultural thing and still very common especially in pakistani community

personally think its backwards

[wicked]

salaam
my parents are like you have to marry a guy whose from a syed family because we are syed.

[hussein296]

The family of Sahal Abdi-kafi no longer talk to him following his wedding to his long-time girlfriend Zamzam Ahmed, a member of Somalia's lower caste Yahar community.





Despite his family's strong disapproval, the couple went ahead with their marriage, encouraged by an edict from the Islamist group which has taken control of the capital, Mogadishu, and much of southern Somalia this year after 15 years of lawlessness.
Sahal and Zamzam had been seeing each other secretly for five years but neither ever really believed their romantic dream would end in marriage.
"We were very different - in lifestyle, in thinking, in tastes," said Sahal, who runs a big electronics shop in Mogadishu's main Bakara Market and who comes from a prominent family of merchants.
In contrast, Zamzam's father has died and her mother sells the popular stimulant khat.
"Yet we fell in love, we expected the heavens to fall when my parents would come to know of our affair, we expected the worst and were prepared for the worst," Salal says.

After centuries of deep divisions, cross caste weddings like Sahal and Zamzam's are now becoming more common.

Prejudice
Union of Islamic Courts leader Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed recently said Somalis should marry good Muslims, whatever caste they were from, in an effort to break down centuries of prejudice.
"Islam recommends choosing your partner according to whether they follow their religion and whether they are of good character but not because of their social level," he said.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif

Sahal, 35, supports the Islamists and says Mr Ahmed's speech convinced him to go ahead with the wedding, despite his parents' opposition.
Somalia's caste system is extremely complicated.
While some members of the lower castes, such as the Yahar, Midgan, Eyle, Boon, say they face constant discrimination, several members have risen to occupy prominent positions in society.
Many members of the lower castes perform jobs such as metal-working, hunting with dogs, shoe-making and hairdressing.
Marriage is the area where traditional prejudices remain strongest, with men who marry lower caste women often ostracised by their families.

Beloved
Sahal knew his family would be upset by the wedding and felt unable to tell them that he and Zamzam had gone ahead and tied the knot.
When he did break the news, his father immediately told him to divorce his new wife and choose another, higher caste, woman.

"My parents promised me they would pay a large amount of money for the cost of my wedding if I married a woman of my caste, but I could not disown my beloved one," he said.
"She is beautiful, polite, obedient to me, pious and God-fearing, so there was no reason not to marry her."
Zamzam says she only knew that she loved Sahal and never thought about their difference in social background.
She said it was beyond her wildest dreams to see herself sharing a life with Sahal.
"Love knows no age, no caste, and no creed. There can be no other explanation why Sahal could have fallen in love with me," she said.
"However, he married me against the wishes of his parents, jeopardising his relations with his relatives and friends and that of the community he comes from," she added. "Finally, he was mine and I was his. Sometimes life is indeed like a Bollywood movie," she said, smiling.


well it is true somalis and all muslims have caste system,but pakistanis one is actually weird cause they scholars(fake) to back it up.also they are not alone in these,bengalis,indians are memeber of these club

the somali caste system is actually product of lower caste themselve behaving in similar manner of that when a child is born they visit you mum and insist on payment for the child born or they would practice magic on your child(blackmail)
but the weird thing in every village no childis born without them knowing it plus the name of child (spooky)
how do i know it happend to me.

but same people nowadays do not practise shameful deed so they should mixes with others freely.cheers