Praying like the prophet(pbuh)

[muslimlearner]

:salams

I was reading about how Mohamed(pbuh) prayed. Few things have confused me.

first thing- I was under the impression that when you go down to sujood, you have to put down your knees first, not your hands. Which one is it exactly?

And when you get up, which part of the body we should lift off the ground first?

second thing- the middle Tashheed

"
Also, "he forbade a man who was sitting in prayer resting on his left hand, and said:
«Verily, that is the prayer of the Jews [182]; in one wording, Do not sit like this, for indeed this is the way of sitting of those who are punished [183]; in another hadeeth, It is the sitting posture of those who incurred (Allaah's) anger.»[184]


How does he(pbuh) mean by resting on the left hand?!

And dosen't this contridict this bit about the last tashheed?

"""Next, after completing the fourth rak'ah, he (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) would sit for the last tashahhud. He would instruct regarding it, and do in it, just as he did in the first tashahhud, except that "he would sit mutawarrikan" [249], "with his left upper thigh on the ground, and both his feet protruding from one (i.e. the right) side." [250] "He would have his left foot under his (right) thigh and shin" [251], "his right foot upright" [252] or occasionally "he would lay it along the ground." [253] "His left palm would cover his (left) knee, leaning heavily on it." [254]"""

[al-ghazalli]

Walakum As Salam

Sidi are you reading the book "The Prophets Prayer"

I do not at this moment have such time but I would suggest that you get a manual of fiqh which is reliable and follow it, for example Fiqh al-Imam is perfect for beginers and describes the hanafi method of prayer with examples from the hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim

One thing to keep in mind though, the method of prayer can be slightly different according to each madhab, for example the Maliki take the later part of the Prophet's life and how he prayed then (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) and follow that example which means we leave our hands resting in the natural position during salah (hands at our sides) which is called sadl while the rest of the Ummah prefers qabd (folding the hands below the navel or on the chest).

Getting a book of fiqh will greatly help you with these types of question.

first thing- I was under the impression that when you go down to sujood, you have to put down your knees first, not your hands. Which one is it exactly?

for the Maliki's it is our knees...

And when you get up, which part of the body we should lift off the ground first?

it is sunnah the maliki madhab to use your hands and knees to lift oneself up.

[M. Siddiqi]

first thing- I was under the impression that when you go down to sujood, you have to put down your knees first, not your hands. Which one is it exactly?

It is sunnah for your knees to touch the ground first.


And when you get up, which part of the body we should lift off the ground first?

It is sunnah for the knees to be the last to leave the ground when going from sajdah into qiyaam.


second thing- the middle Tashheed

"
Also, "he forbade a man who was sitting in prayer resting on his left hand, and said:
«Verily, that is the prayer of the Jews [182]; in one wording, Do not sit like this, for indeed this is the way of sitting of those who are punished [183]; in another hadeeth, It is the sitting posture of those who incurred (Allaah's) anger.»[184]

I have read a similiar hadith but the hadith that I've read does not say the man was in salah. It says he was simply sitting in the masjid. It is a sahih hadith.


"""Next, after completing the fourth rak'ah, he (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) would sit for the last tashahhud. He would instruct regarding it, and do in it, just as he did in the first tashahhud, except that "he would sit mutawarrikan" [249], "with his left upper thigh on the ground, and both his feet protruding from one (i.e. the right) side." [250] "He would have his left foot under his (right) thigh and shin" [251], "his right foot upright" [252] or occasionally "he would lay it along the ground." [253] "His left palm would cover his (left) knee, leaning heavily on it." [254]"""

I have never read this hadith or anything similiar to it. Can you provide a source? From my limited knowledge, this hadith is wrong according to the sunnah and is not sahih.

Wallahu alim.

[As-Sideeq]

Asalamu alaikum,

Okay whenever i go kneeling down half way, before i do so i say Allaahhuakbar and then do rafa'aat (i.e raise the hands like in the beginning of prayer) and then when i say samiallahulimanhamidah i once again do rafa'aat and then say rabannawalakalhamd/rabanaalakalhamd. I done this infront of one muslim and he said i should not do so, i repplied but it is written in the ahadith and thats why i do it, he said that, according to the hanafi fiqh, the reason why Naby (saaws) done this is because whenever the mushrikeen were praying, they used to put little idols under their arms, so the messenger of Allaah (saaws) ordered all muslims to raise their hands when saying Allaahuakabar and samiallahulimanhamida etc so to show the mushrikeen that they do not follow their practice, the reason being that if they raised their hands their arms would be raised making the idols fall of. But after sucha practice was abolished, the prophet (saaws) ordered that the rafa'aat should not be done anymore.
After i heard this, i could not find it anywhere including in scholarly works. Is this story true?

Wasalaam.

[al-ghazalli]

As Salam Alikum

their is a difference of opinion between the Jurists Sidi the issue is called Rafl al-Yadin and the Hanafi Jurists have been attacked unjustly by some groups for "not following the Sunnah".

Difference of opinion in fiqh are a mercy so Sidi just follow one of the four schools which have a valid isnad going back to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) and follow its ruling.

[As-Sideeq]

As Salam Alikum

their is a difference of opinion between the Jurists Sidi the issue is called Rafl al-Yadin and the Hanafi Jurists have been attacked unjustly by some groups for "not following the Sunnah".

Difference of opinion in fiqh are a mercy so Sidi just follow one of the four schools which have a valid isnad going back to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) and follow its ruling.

Asalamu alaikum,

Why don't the hanafi jurist allow the rafa'at? isit becuase of what i previously said?
If not can you please present why.
Jazakallah khayr.

wasalaam.

[al-ghazalli]

inshallah give me an hour and I will type it out Sidi.



Jazkallah Khair.

[al-ghazalli]

Walakum As Salam

In the Name of Allah the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate.

Bismillah wal Hamdulilah was Salatu was Salam 'ala Sayyidina Rasul Allah.


Asalamu alaikum,

Why don't the hanafi jurist allow the rafa'at? isit becuase of what i previously said? If not can you please present why.

Jazakallah khayr.

The issue of raf` al-yadayn (raising of the hands) is a sunnah, the only difference between the Ulema is that not raising the hands is more virtuous then raising them according to some scholars.

1) Raising the hands while saying the opening takbir-- All Scholars are unanimous that the hands should be raised at this point.

2) Raising the hands before bowing (ruku)and after returning from it--one group (who will be rederred to as "one group" in this chapter) states that it is sunna and more virtuous to raise the hands at these instances. Another group, which includes Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifa is of the opinion that it is sunna and more preferable not to raise the hands at these instances.

Imam Malik (Rahimullah) based his opinion on the Amal of Medina (practise of the Sahaba who lived in Medina) who did not observe the practise of raising the hands. Ibn al Qasim his most trusted student states in his book al-mudawwana;

Imam Malik said, "I do not consider the raising of the hands to be part any takbir, neither of any descending or ascending motion, except at the beginning of prayer." Ibn al-Qasim states, "Raising the hands (at any other point) was considered a weak practise according to Imam Malik." (al-Mudawwanat al-kubra 1:71)

Imam Tirmidhi the great scholar of hadith in his Sunan, composed two chapters concerning this issue; one containing the hadiths of raising the hands, and the other containing the hadiths of not raising the hands. At the end of the first chapter, he remarks concerning the raising of the hands, "This is the opinion of a few (ba`d) Companions."

At the end of the second chapter, on not raising the hands, he remarks, "This is the opinion of more than one Companion." The expression used (ghayru wahidin) "more than one" indicates a greater number than the term (ba`d) "few". These remarks of Imam Tirmidhi indicate that the practise of not raising the hands was a very widespread one.

The difference found in the Narrations

The hadiths regarding raf al-yadayn are of three types:

1) There are those which clearly mention that the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) raised his hands at the time of ruku`.

2) There are those which mention that the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) never raised his hands except when uttering the opening takbir.

3) There are those which describe the complete prayer of the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) but do not mention whether or not he raised his hands after the opening takbir.

Group one normally presents the narrations of Ibn Umar and Malik ibn al-Huwayrith (May Allah be Pleased with Them) as their primary sources of evidence, since both of these Companions have reported raising of the hands at the time of bowing.

The Hanafi Ulema did not base their opinion on these narrations but on those reports whose narrators are consistent. Their primary source are the narrations of Abdullah ibn Mas`ud (May Allah be Pleased with Him) who states that the hands were raised at the initial takbir only, and not repeated at any other time in prayer. All reports from him explain the same practise.

Weakness of Abdullah ibn Umar's Narrations (May Allah be Pleased with Him).

Now we come to the issue of the narrations of Abdullah ibn Umar, which are normally quoted by those who claim that the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) frequently raised his hands in salat. It is well known that Imam Malik received many narrations from Abdullah ibn Umar. Infact his famous chain of transmission, which runs through Nafi to Abdullah to ibn Umar (May Allah be Pleased with Him) is known as the "golden chain" (silsilat al-dhahab). However in this issue, Imam Malik did not base his opinion on these narrations, but rather adopted the narratios of Ibn Masud instead. and gave preference to the practise (Amal) of Medina, which was to raise the hands at the initial takbir only.

Secondly, Ibn Abi Shayba and Imam Tahawi have related another hadith of Ibn Umar through Mujahid, in which there is also no mention of raising the hands. If this was a constant practise of the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him), then why is it not mentioned in this narration?

Although there are many hadiths of Ibn Umar (May Allah be Pleased with Him) regarding the raising of the hands, there are many inconsistencies found in them. Such confusion in the reports of a narrator will not allow his narrations to be adopted in the presence of other reports that are more precise and consistent. For example, in one of the narrations, which is mentioned inImam Tahawai's Mushkil al-athar, it states that the hands were raised at every movement of the prayer, whereas in his other narrations this is not mentioned.

To be continued inshallah.

[al-ghazalli]

continued....

The Hadiths on not Raising the Hands.

We will now present the narrations of various Companions including those of Ibn Umar (May Allah be Pleased with Him) which state that the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) raised his hands for the opening takbir only.

The hadiths of Abdullah Ibn Masud (May Allah be Pleased with Him)

1) Alqama reports that Abdullah Ibn Mas`ud said; “Should I not demonstrate the prayer of the Messanger of Allah for you?” He performed the prayer and did not raise his hands except at the initial takbir. (Sunan al-Tirmidhi 1:59, Sunan al-Nasa`I 1:161, Sunan Abi Duwud 1:116).

Imam Tirmidhi classifies this hadith as sound (hasan). Allama ibn Hazm classifies it as rigorously authenticated (sahih). (al-Muhalla 4:88) and Allama Ahmad Muhammad Shakir, rejecting the criticism of some scholars, writes in his commentary of Sunan al-Tirmidhi; The hadith has been authenticated by Ibn Hazm and other hadith masters (hufidh), and whatever has been stated about it contains defects is incorrect.

It is mentioned in the al-Jawhar al-naqi that its narrators are those of Sahih Muslim (I`la`al-sunan 3:45).

2) Alqama reports that Abdullah ibn Masud asked; “Should I not inform you of Allah’s Messanger’s prayer?” He stood up and raised his hands at the outset and did not do so again. (Sunan al-Nasa`I 1:158 and I’la `al-sunan 3:48)

3) Alqama narrates from Abdullah ibn Mas`ud; The Messanger of Allah would raise his hands at the opening takbir, then would not raise them again (Sharh Ma`ani `l-athar 224).

4) Abdullah ibn Mas`ud relates; I prayed with the Messanger of Allah, Abu Bakr, and Umar. They did not raise their hands except at the beginning of prayer (Nasb al-raya 1:526, Majma` al-Zawa`id 2:101).

Judging from the above hadiths, it can be concluded quite easily that the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) did not raise his hands regularly during the course of prayer. Ibn Mas`ud, Ali and the other Companions would have never narrated such reports had they observed the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) and the Caliphs regularly raising the hands? It has also been observed that all narrations of Ibn Mas`ud are consistent in that they relate the hands being raised only at the beginning and not at any other instance.

The hadiths of Abdullah ibn Umar (May Allah be Pleased with him and all the Companions).

The following narrations of Ibn Umar speak of the hands being raised at the opening of the takbir only.

5) Salim reports that his father (Ibn Umar) said; I observed that when the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) would begin his prayer, he would raise his hands while leveling them: some say at shoulder level. Thereafter, he would not raise them again the bowing or after it. Some have added that he would not raise them between the two prostrations (sajud) either. (Sahih Ibn `Awana 2:90U).

In this narration, Ibn Umar actually confirms that the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) did not raise his hands at the time of ruku`. Imam Humaydi, the shaykh of Imam Bukhari, has also reported this very hadith through his own chain which is one of the most reliable chains (Musnad al-Humaydi 2:277). It is agreed upon fact that all of the hadiths of Sahih Ibn `Awana, where the hadith is found, are rigorously authenticated (Sahih.)

6) Salim reports from his father that the Messanger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) would raise his hands to shoulder level when beginning the prayer (al-Mudawwanat al-hubra 2:71U). Imam Malik rejected raf al-yadayn at the time of bowing due to this hadith.

This is taken from the book Fiqh al-Imam by Mufti Abdur Rahman Ibn Yusuf (May Allah Preserve Him) There are many more hadiths sited as proof in his book Sidi, if you require more information please let me know, I didn’t type out the rest of the hadiths in support of the Hanafi position.

And with Allah is all Success.

[Abu Hasim]

there's a difference over placing the hands first and lifting them last which is a maliki opinion or touching your knees first which some consider the strongest opinion.

[Nuukistan]

asdf

[Nuukistan]

It is sunnah for your knees to touch the ground first.

Salam alaykum..

It is actually the hands first,

"If any of you makes Sujûd, he should not kneel as the camel does. Let him place his hands (on the ground) before his knees."
(Collected by Abu Dawûd, Sunan Abi Dawûd, (English Trans.), vol. 1 p.215, hadith no. 839 and authenticated by Shaykh al-Albâni in Sahih Sunah Abi Dawûd, vol. 1, p. 158, hadith no. 746)

[M. Siddiqi]

Salam alaykum..

It is actually the hands first,

"If any of you makes Sujûd, he should not kneel as the camel does. Let him place his hands (on the ground) before his knees."
(Collected by Abu Dawûd, Sunan Abi Dawûd, (English Trans.), vol. 1 p.215, hadith no. 839 and authenticated by Shaykh al-Albâni in Sahih Sunah Abi Dawûd, vol. 1, p. 158, hadith no. 746)

Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullah,

I do not think that hadith is sahih. If it is, there are still many other sahih ahadith stating that is it sunnah for the knees to touch the ground before any other body part when going into sajda.

You have to look at the poll of ahadith and not isolate one particular one which is not consistent with the majority of the others.

[Nuukistan]

I do not think that hadith is sahih. If it is, there are still many other sahih ahadith stating that is it sunnah for the knees to touch the ground before any other body part when going into sajda.

You have to look at the poll of ahadith and not isolate one particular one which is not consistent with the majority of the others.

Salam alaykum wa rahmatullâhi wa barakatuh dear brother,

Before I wanted to respond, I have searched for more evidences and founded that there are differences of opinion whether one should put his knees to the ground or the hands first. To make it more interesting, the hadith about that one should not kneel as the camel does, is sahih.
Al-Albâni stated in 'Sifah Salah an-Nabee' (pg. 52): "He (the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) used to place his hands on the ground before his knees." Then al-Albani said in the footnote of the same page (pg. 52, fn. 2): "Ibn Khuzaimah (1/76/1), Daraqutni and Hakim, who declared it Sahih and Dhahabi agreed. All the Ahadith which contradict this are inauthentic. This way has been endorsed by Malik, and similar is reported from Ahmad in Ibn al-Jawzi's al-Tahqeeq (108/2). Also, al-Marwazi quoted with a Sahih isnad, Imam al-Awzai in his Masaa'il (1/147/1) as saying: 'I found the people placing their hands before their knees.' Then al-Albani continued on the same page: "He used to instruct likewise, saying: When one performs Sajdah, he should not kneel like a camel, but should place his hands before his knees" (related by Abu Hurayra, see Abu Dawood, 1/839, pg. 215 English ed'n).

As I have read in another forum, one wrote that one should see how the camel does and posted some videos, as following:

Video 1 - tourist gets off camel (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-896388294652140510&q=camel+dismounting+khuri+thar+india+knees+--hilton)
Video 2 - Some guy getting scared as his camel kneels (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7136700473104808954&q=camel+-toe)
Video 3 - A ferocious camel is made to kneel (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5301610253655070263&q=angry+ridden+camel+-toe)

Insha'Allâh, see the videos first then read further.

In those videos, we saw how the camels did. As an analogy, are we doing like the camels in our Sujûd? One stated that if we put our hands first to the ground then we will do as the camel does. And if we see the camel in overall, it sounds a little strange and funny, its forelegs are actually its legs! Then if we put our hands first then we are actually not doing like the camel, since the camel puts its knees on the ground first; also if we think of the hadith I have quoted.

Then the question about the other ahadith that one should put his knees first. It's true that there are other ahadith regarding putting the knees first on the ground, as following:

Waa'il ibn Hajar radiyallahu anhu said,
"I saw the Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam when he did sujood, putting his knees down before his hands, and when he got up raised his hands before his knees."
(Abu Dawud, AtTirmidhi, AnNasai, Ibn Majah & AdDaraqutni) (Amongst the scholars that classed the hadith as sahih: Ibn AlQayyim in Zad AlMa'ad)

Then the question remains whether one should put his knees or the hands first. In the last post (in a forum I read), one quoted a Q&A from islamqa.com, and insha'Allâh I think our matter ends here:



Hands first or knees first in sujood?

Question:
Regarding prostration in prayer, I have read two different versions. One (on this website) says that it is better that your knees touch the floor before your hands. In the book
The Prophet's Prayer, it says one should place one's hands on the ground before the knees - and quotes hadith supporting this (claiming knees before hand is as the camel and not advisable. Is there a correct way?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars have differed as to how one should go down in sujood, whether one should go hands first or knees first. According to the Hanafis, Shaafa’is and one opinion narrated from Ahmad, the person who is praying should go down on his knees first, then on his hands. Al-Tirmidhi thought that this was the opinion of the majority of scholars, and said in his Sunan (2/57): “This is how it is done according to the majority of scholars: they think that a man should go down on his knees before he puts his hands down, and when he gets up he should raise his hands before his knees. Those who express this opinion take as evidence the hadeeth of Waa’il ibn Hajar, who said: “I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when he did sujood, putting his knees down before his hands, and when he got up he raised his hands before his knees.” (Reported by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa’i, Ibn Maajah and al-Daaraqutni (1/345). He said: The only one who narrated it was Yazeed ibn Haaroon from Shurayk. Nobody reported from ‘Aasim ibn Kulayb except Shurayk, and Shurayk is not qawiy (strong). Al-Bayhaqi said in al-Sunan (2/101): its isnaad is da’eef (weak). Al-Albaani classed it as da’eef in al-Mishkaat (898) and al-Irwa’ (2/75). Other scholars classed it as saheeh, such as Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Zaad al-Ma’aad). Among those who thought that one should go down into sujood knees first were Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah and his student Ibn al-Qayyim; contemporary scholars who favour this view include Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz and Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen.

Maalik, al-Awzaa’i and the scholars of hadeeth thought that one should go into sujood hands first, based on the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘When any one of you prostrates, let him not go down as the camel does; let him put his hands down before his knees.’” (Reported by Ahmad (2/381), Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, and al-Nisaa’i. Al-Nawawi said in al-Majmoo’ (3/421): it was reported by Abu Dawood and al-Nisaa’i with a jayyid isnaad. It was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in al-Irwa’ (2/78), who said: This is a saheeh isnaad, all of whose men are thiqaat, the men of Muslim, apart from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Hasan, also known as al-Nafs al-Zakiyyah al-‘Alawi, who is thiqah)

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah made a valuable comment on this matter in al-Fataawa (22/449): “Praying in both ways is permissible, according to the consensus of the scholars. If a person wants to go down knees first or hands first, his prayer is valid in either case, according to the consensus of the scholars, but they disputed as to which is preferable.”

The scholar should act upon whichever opinion he believes is more likely to be correct, and the ordinary Muslim should follow the opinion of a scholar whom he trusts. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

And Allâh knows best.

Was'salâmu alaykum wa rahmatullâh

[M. Siddiqi]

Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,

I do not know the authenticity of those ahadith you mentioned because i have read some very similiar which I know to be sahih saying the opposite. But my brother, whether we put our hands or knees on the ground first is not important. What is important is khushu and taqwa. This is what we should be discussing.