Vanilin is it halal

[*Muhammad*]

Asalam alaikum
i have some questions
1-Are all Emulsifiers halal?
2-is Artificial Ethyl vanillin Halal?
thank u:)

[Umar`]

Asalam alaikum
i have some questions
1-Are all Emulsifiers halal?
2-is Artificial Ethyl vanillin Halal?
thank u:)

1) bro theres so much umming and ahhing about emulsifiers, obviously i cant say they are haraam outright but they are clearly a very grey area and theres horror stories that come out about even the supposedly safe ones so i would say just avoid them altogether for your din and also for your health and wellbeing also.
2)vanilla is also dodgy, i dont know about the artificial ethyl but most is extracted with alcohol so is deemed haraam.

[*Muhammad*]

2)vanilla is also dodgy
no i'm asking about Vanillin not vanilla
thanx bro 4 your post jazaka Allahu khairan :)

[Khubaib]

no i'm asking about Vanillin not vanilla
thanx bro 4 your post jazaka Allahu khairan :)

I believe vanillin is halal vanilla is not.

Source:
http://www.soundvision.com/Info/halalhealthy/ingridient.asp

[hugofuchs]

Vanilin, or artificial vanilla flavoring itself is not the problem; The alcohol in it, however, is. There are both non-alcoholic versions of both which use a glycerin or a propylene glycol base instead of alcohol. I take it that you are referencing it a spice as opposed to using it in a perfume.

[Rizwan]

Vanilla must be halal, its made from plants, there is a plant called vanilla...as in vanilla icecream?

[*Muhammad*]

I believe vanillin is halal vanilla is not.

Source:
http://www.soundvision.com/Info/halalhealthy/ingridient.asp

thanx a lot Jazaka Allahu khairan :up:

[*Muhammad*]

Vanilin, or artificial vanilla flavoring itself is not the problem; The alcohol in it, however, is. There are both non-alcoholic versions of both which use a glycerin or a propylene glycol base instead of alcohol. I take it that you are referencing it a spice as opposed to using it in a perfume.

i'm talking about the flavoring in chocolates and ice-creams and ok even if there was other versions of both what they call it and how can i know that they are using these versions! (the halal one)

[faishaan]

i didnt much bother about things i eat . until i came here . in my country almost every people eat chickens and beef from non muslim countries. maybe like me most of the people in my county isnt aware of how haram it is to eat meat which are not slaughtered by the name of GOD . for 100% muslim country i mean we should be aware of these things :(

[faishaan]

i guess i have to tell my parents that all these days we were eating haram food :( . i blame the goverment for this

[*Muhammad*]

i didnt much bother about things i eat . until i came here . in my country almost every people eat chickens and beef from non muslim countries. maybe like me most of the people in my county isnt aware of how haram it is to eat meat which are not slaughtered by the name of GOD . for 100% muslim country i mean we should be aware of these things :(

even if u or anyone lives in an islamic country they should also be aware of imported food and read the ingredients even if it was not imported u know that because some muslims don't care or maybe the ingredients are imported

[*Muhammad*]

i guess i have to tell my parents that all these days we were eating haram food :( . i blame the goverment for this

u shouldn't eat u know myself i have a problem in finding halal foods these days (i'm singleton and have no time 2 cook:( )

[.: Anna :.]

Vanilla must be halal, its made from plants, there is a plant called vanilla...as in vanilla icecream?yeah vanilla is like the other gender of the orchid plant i think?

[*Muhammad*]

ok what can u understand from this i'm not into these things
plz help
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanillin
is Artificial Ethyl vanillin Halal?

[*Muhammad*]

hey:(
helloooooooo

[hugofuchs]

No. Ethyl vanilin is vanilin suspended in ethyl alcohol (ethynol). You can get drunk from it, therefore it is Haram.

[*Muhammad*]

No. Ethyl vanilin is vanilin suspended in ethyl alcohol (ethynol). You can get drunk from it, therefore it is Haram.

thanx

[Jaafart]

Assalamu alaykum,

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.


Some muslim scholars consider these products halal when used as ingredients in small quantities

Fatwa issued by the "European Council for Fatwa and Research" regarding "Food Containing E-Number Additives" (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546698)

..The items which carry the letter "E" and a string of numbers are additives. Additives are more than 350 compounds, and could be preservatives, coloring, flavorings, sweeteners, etc.

These are divided into four groups according to their origin:

First: compounds of artificial chemical origin

Second: compounds of vegetal origin

Third: compounds of animal origin

Fourth: compounds dissolved in alcohol

The ruling on all these compounds is that they do not affect the status of these foods being halal, due to the following:

The first and second groups are halal because they originate from a permissible origin and no harm comes from using these items.

The third group is also halal because the animal origin does not remain the same during the process of manufacturing. It is transformed radically from its original form to a new clean and pure form through a process called chemical transformation. This transformation also affects the legal ruling on such ingredients. Therefore, if the original form was unclean or haram, the chemical transformation changed it to another ingredient that requires a new ruling. For instance, if alcohol changed and was transformed to vinegar, then it does not remain haram but carries a new ruling according to the nature of the new product, which is halal.

As for the fourth group, these items are usually colorings and are normally used in extremely small quantities that dissolves in the final product form, which deems it an excused matter. Therefore, any foods or drinks that contain any of these ingredients remain halal and permissible for the Muslim's consumption. We must also remember that our religion is a religion of ease and that we have been forbidden from making matters inconvenient and hard. Moreover, searching and investigating into such matters is not what Allah or His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) ordered us to do..

The Islamic Food and Nutrition Council of America (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545260) said:

..In the food industry, alcohol is the second common solvent after water. Some of the flavors like vanilla cannot be made without alcohol. One cannot imagine foods and drinks like ice cream, cakes and cookies, soft drinks, etc. without the use of alcohol, to the extent that this has become an unavoidable impurity in the food systems. Muslim countries, which import food products, accept foods containing small quantities of alcohol.

We have established two levels of control points for
alcohol in foods and ingredients:

Less than 0.1 per cent in the food items.
Less than 0.5 per cent in food ingredients.

At the above levels, one can not detect the presence of alcohol by taste, smell or sight.

These guidelines are for the food industry to make halal certified products. However, where should one draw the line is up to the individual Muslim consumer, based on "the available knowledge and his or her own commitment..

You can also read on the same page a Fatwa issued by the Fiqh Council of North America regarding Soft Drinks Containing Alcohol

Alcohol in Flavourings (a Hanafi opinion) (http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/?page=viewquestion&id=200)

..The Foodguide follows the opinion of major contemporary Hanafi scholars including the venerable Mufti Yusuf Sacha of the UK (highly acclaimed foods expert) and Mufti Ashraf Usmani of Pakistan. The fatwa in our times is that synthetic alcohols (and all alcohol not sourced from dates and grapes) in foods and otherwise is pure (tahir), and permitted to use and consume on the conditions that:

(a) it is not used as an intoxicant;
(b) it is not used as intoxicants as used (i.e. for alcoholic consumption, even a little);
(c) it is not used in an amount that intoxicates;
(d) it is not used in vain (lahw).
Courtesy: Shaykh Faraz Rabbani
..

In a live fatwa session Sheikh Mohamed El-Moctar El-Shinqiti (http://www.islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=dX820s) said:

..The juristic rule of istihlak states that any substance that is so INSIGNIFICANT because of its quantity as mixed with an overriding halal substance(s), then it is forgiven. If we apply this rule to your question, we would say what experts have concluded in this regard, that any quantity of alcohol that does not exceed the amount of 0.5% is not intoxicating, and therefore it would not render juice or bread haram when mixed with them. The same applies to ketchup, mustard, etc.

People who misunderstand this rule are often confused with the interpretation of the hadith “whatever intoxicates in big quantity, a small amount of it is haram.” However, the hadith is only talking about the “intoxicating substance” that is not mixed with others. For example, a Muslim is not allowed to take little drops of wine and drinks them under the pretext that he won’t get drunk. But when the alcohol is mixed with other substance to the effect that it has become irrelevant (up to 0.5%) then it has become another substance that falls under the rules of either istihlak or istihalah (transformation)..


If you understand french you can also read:
Gélatine, additifs (E422, etc.), présure... rendent-ils les aliments illicites (http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:_xBZOWq-JocJ:www.maison-islam.com/print.php%3Fsid%3D224+G%C3%A9latine,+additifs+(E42 2,+etc.),+pr%C3%A9sure...+rendent-ils+les+aliments+illicites+%3F&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=mozilla)
It's a cached version from google, the original seems to have been moved/deleted

Obviously there are other people who consider these ingredients haram or mashbooh. You have to make your own opinion :).

Hope this helps.

Allah Almighty knows best.

[*Muhammad*]

Assalamu alaykum,
WS

Some muslim scholars consider these products halal when used as ingredients in small quantities ,
how dare themhttp://www.ummah.com/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif? Astaghfirullah?
sweets that contain unchanged alcohol, we are not permitted to eat them, whether the alcohol in them is in big amounts or only a little (http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=1938&ln=eng&txt=Alcohol)
it was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343). If the vinegar would cause intoxication in large amounts, then a little of it is haraam, and it comes under the same ruling as wine. If a large amount of it does not cause intoxication, then there is no reason not to sell it, buy it or drink it. (http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=901&ln=eng&txt=Alcohol)
i doubt their scholarship
thanx 4 ur post

[Jaafart]

Assalamu alaykum,
how dare them?..
Can you please elaborate? And also explain why you doubt the scholarship of these muslim scholars?

Thanks

[*Muhammad*]

Assalamu alaykum,
ws

Can you please elaborate? And also explain why you doubt the scholarship of these muslim scholars?
i already did:rubeyes: ok again u said:
Some muslim scholars consider these products halal when used as ingredients in small quantities

yet

it was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343).

how do they contradict a very clear hadith that's why i doubt their scholarship

[Jaafart]

Assalamu alaykum,

Sorry, it's my mistake i should have added at the end of my statement:

Some muslim scholars consider these products halal when used as ingredients in small quantities if mixed with an overriding halal substance.

My statement was only introductory and should not be interpreted without the rest of the post. I assumed that the fatwas i quoted would clarify this point but i was clearly wrong :). Please do not let my shortcomings misguide you and try to carefully read the fatwas provided (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1502798#post1502798) for a better comprehension of the subject.

..The juristic rule of istihlak states that any substance that is so INSIGNIFICANT because of its quantity as mixed with an overriding halal substance(s), then it is forgiven. If we apply this rule to your question, we would say what experts have concluded in this regard, that any quantity of alcohol that does not exceed the amount of 0.5% is not intoxicating, and therefore it would not render juice or bread haram when mixed with them. The same applies to ketchup, mustard, etc.

People who misunderstand this rule are often confused with the interpretation of the hadith “whatever intoxicates in big quantity, a small amount of it is haram.” However, the hadith is only talking about the “intoxicating substance” that is not mixed with others. For example, a Muslim is not allowed to take little drops of wine and drinks them under the pretext that he won’t get drunk. But when the alcohol is mixed with other substance to the effect that it has become irrelevant (up to 0.5%) then it has become another substance that falls under the rules of either istihlak or istihalah (transformation)..

You can also read here (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545260):
To anchor this basic concept, we would like to say that if a small amount of a prohibited substance X is mixed with a dominant permissible substance Y till substance X loses all its attributes such as taste, color, and smell, substance X loses the qualifications of being impure and prohibited by having being dissolved in substance Y.

This conclusion is supported by a ruling by Imam Ibn Taymmiah in his book Al-Fatawa (21/502), and by the recommendations of the Ninth Medical Fiqh Seminar of the Islamic Medical Science Organization, which met in Ad-Dar Al-Bayda’ in Morocco in June 1997.

Allah Almighty knows best

[*Muhammad*]

Assalamu alaykum,

Sorry, it's my mistake i should have added at the end of my statement:

Some muslim scholars consider these products halal when used as ingredients in small quantities if mixed with an overriding halal substance.



WS
so maybe they also should consider 'these' products halal when used (pig's fat) as ingredients in small quantities if mixed with an overriding halal substance:rolleyes: those scholars should shut their mouth up

[Jaafart]

Assalamu alaykum,

I'm going to end my intervention here as I don't like the condescending tone towards reputable muslim scholars. If you need more clarifications please contact directly the authors of the fatawas.

Salam.

[*Muhammad*]

Assalamu alaykum,

I'm going to end my intervention here as I don't like the condescending tone towards reputable muslim scholars. If you need more clarifications please contact directly the authors of the fatawas.

Salam.

ws
i don't think i will contact them, anyway thanx

[hugofuchs]

In response, some consider the minute amounts of alcohol put into pre-cooked foods not to be haram as the heat necessary to thoroughly cook them will boil off the alcohol. Since non-ethanol versions of most products are available, they should be used. If however, one made eggnog (egg+milk+sugar+vanilla), then a non-ethanol vanilla would be used, as eggnog is generally not cooked.

[*Muhammad*]

In response, some consider the minute amounts of alcohol put into pre-cooked foods not to be haram as the heat necessary to thoroughly cook them will boil off the alcohol. Since non-ethanol versions of most products are available, they should be used. If however, one made eggnog (egg+milk+sugar+vanilla), then a non-ethanol vanilla would be used, as eggnog is generally not cooked.

Some consider that and what does the prophet pbuh consider it? it must have its affects , if not why are they using it
(i don't mean turning ppl drunk) Alcohol is haram full stop, it was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343).

[*Muhammad*]

ponder this hadith:
Jabir b. 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying in the Year of Victory while he was in Mecca: Verily Allah and His Messenger have forbidden the sale of wine, carcass, swine and idols, It was said: Allah's Messenger, you see that the fat of the carcass is used for coating the boats and varnishing the hides and people use it for lighting purposes, whereupon he said: No, it is forbidden, Then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: May Allah the Exalted and Majestic destroy the Jews; when Allah forbade the use of fat of the carcass for them, they melted it, and then sold it and made use of its price (received from it). (Shahih Mulsim)

if Alcohol is haram then we should avoid it right? even if it has some benefits2[219] They ask you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit."
5[90] O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansâb, and Al-Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.

[Raul-7]

Some consider that and what does the prophet pbuh consider it? it must have its affects , if not why are they using it
(i don't mean turning ppl drunk) Alcohol is haram full stop, it was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343).

When the Prophet :saw: referred to this Hadith, he meant drinking alcohol. I fail to see how vanilla is going to intoxicate someone - have you seen evidence of someone getting drunk off of over-consumtion of vanilla? This religion is made to ease people's lives, not make them more difficult.

[*Muhammad*]

In response, some consider the minute amounts of alcohol put into pre-cooked foods not to be haram as the heat necessary to thoroughly cook them will boil off the alcohol. Since non-ethanol versions of most products are available, they should be used. If however, one made eggnog (egg+milk+sugar+vanilla), then a non-ethanol vanilla would be used, as eggnog is generally not cooked.

imagine if it was this way:some consider the minute amounts of Pig fat put into pre-cooked foods not to be haram as the heat necessary to thoroughly cook them will boil off the Pig fat.

pig fat is haram as well as Alcohol end of the story

[Raul-7]

imagine if it was this way:some consider the minute amounts of Pig fat put into pre-cooked foods not to be haram as the heat necessary to thoroughly cook them will boil off the Pig fat.

pig fat is haram as well as Alcohol end of the story

Alcohol is volatile, fat isn't. Big difference.

[*Muhammad*]

When the Prophet :saw: referred to this Hadith, he meant drinking alcohol.
And the Quraan talked about it generally?
if Alcohol is haram then we should avoid it right? even if it has some benefits???
2[219] They ask you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit."
5[90] O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansâb, and Al-Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.

I fail to see how vanilla is going to intoxicate someone - have you seen evidence of someone getting drunk off of over-consumtion of vanilla?

wait, Alcohol is haram right,
it was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.(even if that small amount doesn't not turn u drunk i guess;) )” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343).
This religion is made to ease people's lives, not make them more difficult.
avoiding haram chocolate ain't difficult .

[*Muhammad*]

Alcohol is volatile, fat isn't. Big difference.
both are haram big sameness

[Raul-7]

And the Quraan talked about it generally?
if Alcohol is haram then we should avoid it right? even if it has some benefits???
2[219] They ask you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit."
5[90] O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansâb, and Al-Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.


wait, Alcohol is haram right,
it was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.(even if that small amount doesn't not turn u drunk i guess;) )” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343).



avoiding haram chocolate ain't difficult .

The Quran refers to drinking alcohol and so did the Prophet. Everyone knows alcohol intoxicates, but eating vanilla ice-cream? Maybe we should avoid eating bread since the same yeast cells used to make bread are also used for making beer. Why not take it that far?

[*Muhammad*]

The Quran refers to drinking alcohol and so did the Prophet.
no its says Al-khamr not drinking Al-khamr
Everyone knows alcohol intoxicates, but eating vanilla ice-cream?
does it cantain alcohol , yes, it is haram

Maybe we should avoid eating bread since the same yeast cells used to make bread are also used for making beer. Why not take it that far?

Are these yeast cells haram or intoxicant . if so then avoid it right now