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noorahmad
11-11-06, 11:24 AM
We begin with the Name of Allaah

A sect that denies the Attributes of Allaah, ta'weel being one of its outstanding hallmarks.

The Ash`aris are a doctrinal school of thought named after Imam Abul-Hasan Ash`ari. Some latter Ash`aris resorted to interpretation of some of the allegorical attributes, initially in an effort to curb the waves of anthropomorphism which were raging in their time. They based these interpretations on the Arabic language and the contexts of the verses. Anything whose interpretation was not abundantly clear to them (such as the Vision of Allah for the believers in the Hereafter), they deferred to Allah. Also, it should be noted that not all Ash`aris resorted to interpretation. It is important to make a distinction between the Ash`aris, on the one hand, and the Jahmiyyah and Mu`tazilah on the other. Many prominent scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah were Ash`aris, e.g. Qadi Abu Bakr al-Baqillani, Imam Yahya ibn Sharaf al-Nawawi, Imam Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani. In fact, most Malikis, Shafi`is and Hanbalis have been Ash`ari in doctrine. Although both al-Ash`ari and al-Maturidi were Hanafi in jurisprudence, the latter was more affected by the doctrinal heritage of Imam Abu Hanifah. The differences between the Ash`aris and Maturidis are minor, numbering around a couple of dozen points, many of which are merely differences in terminology.

As is known the author of at-Tahaawiyyah and its explainer were both Hanafees, and at-Tahaawee was a contemporary of al-Ash'aree. He wrote his Aqeedah to explain the Aqeedah of Imaam Abu Haneefah and his companions, and it is very like what is found in Fiqh al-Akbar from him. They report from the Imaam that he clearly states the Kufr (disbelief) of one who says that Allaah - the Most Perfect and Exalted - is not upon the Arsh (throne) or remains silent about it.

Also his student Aboo Yoosuf declares Bishr al-Maareesee to be a Kaafir, and as is well known the Ash'ariyyah deny Allaah's ascension and deny that He the Most High is above the Arsh (Throne) and it is also well known that their principles were taken from Bishr al-Maareesee!! [See what is mentioned in Siyar A'laamin-Nubulaa in the Biography of Bishr (10/200-201) and al-Hamawiyyah (p.14-15) ]

The position of the Hanbalees with regard to the Ash'ariyyah is more famous than to need mention. So since Imaam Ahmad declared 'Ibn Kullaab' to be an innovator and ordered to be ostracized, and he was the true founder of the Ash'aree madhhab. The Hanbalees have not ceased to be involved in a long battle with them. Even to the time of the state of Nizaam ul-Mulk in which they behaved presumptuously, and after it the Hanbalees ejected every speaker who mixed anything from the madhhab of the Ash'ariyyah into his speeches. Ibn ul-Qushairi was one of those who experienced this, and because their madhhab had become so widespread, and due to the agreement of the scholars of the state, especially the Hanbalees that he should be opposed, so the Khaleefah al-Qaadir sent out al-I'tiqaad al-Qaadiree which clarified the aqeedah which was binding upon the Ummah in the year 433H.[See al-Muntazam of Ibnul-Jawzee, events of the year 433, 469 &475 - (vols 8 & 9)]

And Shaikhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah quotes that when Abdul-Qaadir al-Jeelaanee was asked: "Has there ever been one who was a Walee of Allaah who was upon other than the aqeedah of Ahmad bin Hanbal?" He replied: "That has not occurred and will never occur." [Al-Istiqaamah (pp.85-86)]

al-ghazalli
11-11-06, 12:58 PM
As Salam Alikum

In the Name of Allah the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate

Bismillah wal Hamdulilah was Salatu was Salam 'ala Sayyidina Rasul Allah.

Some latter Ash`aris resorted to interpretation of some of the allegorical attributes, initially in an effort to curb the waves of anthropomorphism which were raging in their time.

The Sahaba also made tawil and their are numerous examples, also the famous mufasir Ibn Kathir (Rahimullah) in his tafsir made tawil.

(وَاصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبِّكَ فَإِنَّكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ حِينَ تَقُومُ

قال الامام ابن كثير: (وَقَوْله تَعَالَى " وَاصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبّك فَإِنَّك بِأَعْيُنِنَا " أَيْ اِصْبِرْ عَلَى أَذَاهُمْ وَلَا تُبَالِهِمْ فَإِنَّك بِمَرْأًى مِنَّا وَتَحْت كِلَاءَتنَا وَاَللَّه يَعْصِمك مِنْ النَّاس. )

Allah the Exalted said,


وَاصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبِّكَ فَإِنَّكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا


"So wait patiently for the decision of your Lord, for verily, you are under Our Eyes.

meaning, `be patient in the face of their annoyance and do not be concerned about it, for you are under Our vision and Protection, and We will surely protect you from the people,'

is well known the Ash'ariyyah deny Allaah's ascension and deny that He the Most High is above the Arsh (Throne) and it is also well known that their principles were taken from Bishr al-Maareesee!! [See what is mentioned in Siyar A'laamin-Nubulaa in the Biography of Bishr (10/200-201) and al-Hamawiyyah (p.14-15) ]

By Allah what lies they do not deny Allah's ascension, should u not fear Allah before you make such remarks. If you wish to learn their aqeedah then perhaps you should read `Aqidat al-`Awwam by Imam Al-Ghazalli (Rahimullah).

If you truly are a student seeking knowlodge then you should refer questions to the Ulema who follow Ashari aqeedah.

With Allah is all Success.

GenN
11-11-06, 01:39 PM
As Salam Alikum

In the Name of Allah the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate

Bismillah wal Hamdulilah was Salatu was Salam 'ala Sayyidina Rasul Allah.



The Sahaba also made tawil and their are numerous examples, also the famous mufasir Ibn Kathir (Rahimullah) in his tafsir made tawil.

(وَاصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبِّكَ فَإِنَّكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ حِينَ تَقُومُ

قال الامام ابن كثير: (وَقَوْله تَعَالَى " وَاصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبّك فَإِنَّك بِأَعْيُنِنَا " أَيْ اِصْبِرْ عَلَى أَذَاهُمْ وَلَا تُبَالِهِمْ فَإِنَّك بِمَرْأًى مِنَّا وَتَحْت كِلَاءَتنَا وَاَللَّه يَعْصِمك مِنْ النَّاس. )

Allah the Exalted said,


وَاصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبِّكَ فَإِنَّكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا


"So wait patiently for the decision of your Lord, for verily, you are under Our Eyes.

meaning, `be patient in the face of their annoyance and do not be concerned about it, for you are under Our vision and Protection, and We will surely protect you from the people,'



By Allah what lies they do not deny Allah's ascension, should u not fear Allah before you make such remarks. If you wish to learn their aqeedah then perhaps you should read `Aqidat al-`Awwam by Imam Al-Ghazalli (Rahimullah).

If you truly are a student seeking knowlodge then you should refer questions to the Ulema who follow Ashari aqeedah.

With Allah is all Success.

Well said, MashAllah.

aboosait
12-11-06, 05:40 AM
The Scholars of the Salaf have exhibited an outstanding role in foiling the plans of the enemies of Islaam - in all their different sects, and the varying doubts they propagate. And that, by which the Islaamic Aqeedah was put to trial with in its very first period was but the various madhaahib and new ideas which entered it by way of philosophy and theological rhetoric.

The Mu'tazilah played a big role in distorting the texts of the Sharee'ah from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and plotting against the Scholars of the Salaf and attacking their honour. The most famous of such plots is the trial of Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal - may Allaah have mercy upon him - who remained firm in that trial and in refuting their doubts falsifying their falsehood - he and the other Scholars of the Salaf of this Ummah, such as Imaaam Bukhaaree, ad-Daarimee, Ibn Qutaibah, Ibn Mandah and others besides them.

And Abu Hasan al-Ash'ariyy in the first part of his life, used to be a Mu'taziliyy since he was brought up at the hands of Abu Alee al-Jubaa'ee the Shaikh of the Mu'tazilah of Basrah in his time.

And Allaah willed goodness for Abu Hasan al-Ash'ariyy and granted him success in taking from the Book and the Sunnah and abandoning the madhhab of the Mu'tazilah.

Then he refuted the sophistry of the Mu'tazilah, exposed their falsehood, rendered futile their arguments with both textual evidence and by way of reason. His books testify to that.

He then remained, for a period, speaking in certain matters of belief, with the saying of Ibn Kullaab. However, in the final stage of his life he was upon the aqeedah of the Salaf and he spoke with whatever Imaam Ahmad spoke with - may Allaah have mercy upon him - with respect to all the Attributes of Allaah.

So he affirmed for Allaah whatever Allaah affirmed for himself and whatever His Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) affirmed for Him in his Sunnah.

And this has been recorded in his book called Al-Ibaanah an Usool id-Diyaanah.

However, those who ascribed themselves to the madhhab of Abu Hasan al-Ash'ariyy continued taking from the madhhab of Ibn Kullaab and passed it on to those who ascribed themselves to Abu Hasan al-Ash'ariyy, generation after generation.

The truth, however, is what the scholars testify to, those in whose honesty, integrity and impartiality there is no doubt, that the aqeedah which Abu Hasan al'Ash'ariyy held and worshipped Allaah with, is the aqeedah which he has affirmed in his book Al-Ibaanah and that this was the last of his books in which the matter of his aqeedah was settled.

Excerpts from http://www.spubs.com/sps/sp.cfm?subsecID=AQD06&articleID=AQD060001&articlePages=1

al-ghazalli
12-11-06, 04:56 PM
As Salam Alikum

In the Name of Allah the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate.

Bismillah wal Hamdulilah was Salatu was Salam 'ala Sayyidina Rasul Allah.


The truth, however, is what the scholars testify to, those in whose honesty, integrity and impartiality there is no doubt, that the aqeedah which Abu Hasan al'Ash'ariyy held and worshipped Allaah with, is the aqeedah which he has affirmed in his book Al-Ibaanah and that this was the last of his books in which the matter of his aqeedah was settled.

Typical copy & paste junk, did you even bother to read the original sources or even check the sources which they quote from?

This is why taking knowlodge from the internet is dangerous.

The Ulema is aware for about a few hundred years that the book Al-Ibaanah has many distortions attributed to it, the original work has been filled with misquotes. Infact one of them quotes in the book states that Imam Abu Hanifa (Rahimullah) states that the Qur`an was created if this way true then Imam Abu Hanifa would have commited kufr, since it is ijma that the Qur`an is uncreated.

Or would you believe the book and believe that the noble Imam commited kufr?

If the Asharis have tarnished Aqeedah then we have a major problem, most major scholars were Ashari's and if their aqeedah is tarnished then their works are no longer a hujjah for us, do you know we would lose and we would have to disregard the hadith ranking of Imam Nawawi, Ibn Hajar and many more eminent Scholars. If we had to disregard their works we would have not much to relie on in fiqh, hadith, tafsir, seerah.

But it is proven from classical scholarship that the Ahl as-Sunnah are the Ashari, Muturidi and Athari.


With Allah is all Success.

MokodorAli
13-11-06, 01:23 PM
Devaiants? :bangbang:

aboosait
14-11-06, 02:00 PM
......But it is proven from classical scholarship that the Ahl as-Sunnah are the Ashari, Muturidi and Athari.

Ahl as-Sunnah are Ahl as-Sunnah. How can they be the Ashari, Muturidi and Athari?

What is this 'classical scholarship' ? Please explain. May Allah swt reward you for this.

Abu Hasim
14-11-06, 09:50 PM
Most of us here arent qualified to have debates on aqeedah. The difference that hes talking about is explaining allahs attributes, it has nothing to do with fiqh shariah or anything else. Its not like ashari are hardcore sufi jumping up and down listening to music chanting allah allah allah allah allah allah.

So the topic is a difference within Ahl sunnah wal jamaah. Unless people are interesting in going to Islamic university or doing thorugh reserch understanding the proofs and evidences from both sides, its not a differnce we should be focusing on. The difference only has to do with explaining allah's attributes nothing else.