The Khalifate of Umar (ra)

[Selamat]

Does anyone know where I can get in-depth info on the Khalifate of Umar (ra)? Because on Shiachat there is a current thread which is dedicated to praising Abu Lululah because he killed Umar (ra). Specifically I need info on what type of ruler he was (just, unjust, etc) and what is the real story behind 'the incident of the door'.

[.: Rashid :.]

Akhi i cant give masses of articles and hadiths but I jus wanna warn you to NOT take the word of shias...they attack and defame pious sahaba :asta:

I'll let al-irhaab take it from here :D (he probly has it all bookmarked)

-Rashid

[Ibn Sina]

Shia's praising the death of `Umar (ra)? How low can they get....

[Nusayba bint Ka'b]

http://www.islamic-world.net/khalifah/khulafa_ur_rashiduun2.htm this site seems good akhi:)

[Fahad Hasnain]

The incident of the door is in Sunni Books. As is Umar forcing Ali(as) to give alligence.

I'm sorry to say this, but after research, i have found that Sunnis are simply in denial of history.

[Selamat]

The incident of the door is in Sunni Books. As is Umar forcing Ali(as) to give alligence.

I'm sorry to say this, but after research, i have found that Sunnis are simply in denial of history.

If this is the case, then surely you can find authentic accounts for these incidents in Sunni books. So post some sources, please.

[al-ghazalli]

The incident of the door is in Sunni Books. As is Umar forcing Ali(as) to give alligence.

I'm sorry to say this, but after research, i have found that Sunnis are simply in denial of history.

If you knew the science of Ilm al-Rijal you would also know that the sources are either weak or outright forgeries.


As for the Shiachat it is a place full of misguidance anyone who wishes to save themselves from fitna should avoid it. Debating should be left to the Ulema and we have excellent books refuting the Shia.


And with Allah is all Success.

[Rizwan]

What incident of the door?

Umar (ra) forced Ali (ra), for bayah? where did you hear that?

Listen to this... http://www.edars.com/

This is Umar Ibn Al Khattab (ra) we are talking about! The kind of man..who when the Muslims were only 39 in number..and Umar (ra) embraced Islam (im sure you all know the story...)...he made no secret of his Islam...infact he went straight to the door of Abu Jahl and shouted "Oh Abu Jahl! I AM A MUSLIM!". Abu Jahl was shocked, He slammed the door again and said "Abu Jahl...I am a Muslim!" so Abu Jahl not knowing what else to do..hit the door shut on Umar....and then just to make sure Abu Jahl got the message...he went round the back entrance...slammed on the back door and shouted "Abu Jahl...I...OMAR IBN AL KHATTAB AM A MUSLIM NOW!" :coolbro:

Thats the kind of Passion and Devotion he had, Rasulullah (saw) himself gave Umar the title of "Farooq" - the One who Seperates TRUTH from FALSEHOOD! May Allah (swt) be Razi with with this noble Sahaba.

[Selamat]

What incident of the door?

The 'incident of the door' is an alleged incident in which Ali (ra) refused to swear loyalty to Umar (ra), so Umar and some other folk went to Ali's house and set in on fire, so Ali would come out and they could force him to swear allegience to Umar. Hz. Fatimah allegedly stood in the doorway of the burning house to prevent them from reaching Ali, at which point Umar and company threw her against a wall, causing her unborn child to die in her womb.

[Ibn Sina]

What incident of the door?

Umar (ra) forced Ali (ra), for bayah? where did you hear that?

Listen to this... http://www.edars.com/

This is Umar Ibn Al Khattab (ra) we are talking about! The kind of man..who when the Muslims were only 39 in number..and Umar (ra) embraced Islam (im sure you all know the story...)...he made no secret of his Islam...infact he went straight to the door of Abu Jahl and shouted "Oh Abu Jahl! I AM A MUSLIM!". Abu Jahl was shocked, He slammed the door again and said "Abu Jahl...I am a Muslim!" so Abu Jahl not knowing what else to do..hit the door shut on Umar....and then just to make sure Abu Jahl got the message...he went round the back entrance...slammed on the back door and shouted "Abu Jahl...I...OMAR IBN AL KHATTAB AM A MUSLIM NOW!" :coolbro:

Thats the kind of Passion and Devotion he had, Rasulullah (saw) himself gave Umar the title of "Farooq" - the One who Seperates TRUTH from FALSEHOOD! May Allah (swt) be Razi with with this noble Sahaba.

Man I LOVE his conversion story :D

[...] May Allah (swt) be Razi with with this noble Sahaba.

Ameen!

[Nusayba bint Ka'b]

Man I LOVE his conversion story :D



Ameen!


me too, sends goosebumps all over my body subhanaAllah!

[...] May Allah (swt) be Razi with with this noble Sahaba.
what does razi mean?

[Fahad Hasnain]

If this is the case, then surely you can find authentic accounts for these incidents in Sunni books. So post some sources, please.

First i will provide you sources that state that Imam Ali(as) only gave his allegiance 6 months after the Holy Prophet(saaws) passed away.

The following is taken from http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/toc.html

Bukhari in his Sahih, Volume III, Chapter of Ghazawa Khaibar, page 37, and Muslim Bin Hujjaj, in his Sahih, Volume V, page 154, report that Ali offered his allegiance after Fatima's death.

Mas'udi in his Muruju's-sahab, Volume I, page 414, says None of the Bani Hashim swore their allegiance to Abu Bakr until the death of Bibi Fatima.

Ibrahim Bin Sa'd Saqafi narrates from Zuhri that Ali did not pay allegiance until six months after the Prophet's death, and the people did not have the courage to pressure him except after the death of Bibi Fatima.

In any case, your own ulema insist that Ali's allegiance was not immediate but came only after some time had passed and then only when circumstances forced him to do so. Ibn Abi'l-Hadid, in his Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume II, page 18, narrates from Zuhri, from A'yesha, who said: "Ali did not offer allegiance to Abu Bakr for six months, and no one of the Bani Hashim offered allegiance until Ali did."

Ahmad Bin A'sam-e-Kufi Shafi'i in Futuh, and Abu Nasr Hamidi, in Jam'a Bainu's-Sahihain report from Nafiy, quoting from Zuhri, who said: "Ali did not swear allegiance until six months after the Prophet's death."

Now the following sources show that Ali(as) was dragged from this house to pay allegiance to Abu Bakr. THe incident of the door took place in this same event.

Abu Ja'far Baladhuri Ahmad Bin Yahya Bin Jabir Baghdadi, one of your reliable traditionists and historians, writes in his History that when Abu Bakr called Ali to swear allegiance, Ali refused. Abu Bakr sent Umar who went with a torch to set fire to Ali's house. Fatima came to the door and said: "O son of Khattab! Have you come to set my house on fire?" He said: "Yes, this is more effective than anything your father did."

Izzu'd-Din Ibn Abi'l-Hadid Mu'tazali, and Muhammad Bin Jarir Tabari, narrate that Umar went to the door of Ali's house with Usayd Bin Khuza'i, Salama Bin Aslam and a group of men. Umar then called out, "Come out! Or else I'll set your house on fire!"

Ibn Khaziba reports in his Kitab-e-Gharrar from Zaid Bin Aslam, who said: "I was one of those who went with Umar with torches to Fatima's door. When Ali and his men refused to offer allegiance, Umar said to Fatima, "Let whoever is inside come out. Otherwise, I will set the house on fire along with whoever is inside." Ali, Hasan, Husain, Fatima, and a party of the Prophet's companions, and the Bani Hashim were inside. Fatima said: "Would you set my house on fire along with me and my sons?" He said: "Yes, by Allah, if they do not come out and pay allegiance to the caliph of the Prophet."

Ibn Abd Rabbih, one of your famous ulema, writes in his Iqdu'l-Farid, Part III, page 63, that Ali and Abbas were sitting in Fatima's house. Abu Bakr told Umar: "Go and bring these people. If they refuse to come, fight them." So Umar came to Fatima's house with torches. Fatima came to the door of the house and said: "Have you come to burn our house?" He said: "Yes..." and so on.

Ibn Abi'l-Hadid Mu'tazali in his Shahre Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume I, page 134, quoting from Jauhari's Kitab-e-Saqifa, writes in detail about the affair of the Saqifa-e-Bani Sa'ad. "The Bani Hashim and Ali were assembled in Ali's house. Zubair was also with them since he considered himself one of the Bani Hashim. Ali used to say, 'Zubair was always with us until his sons were grown up. They turned him against us.' Umar went to Fatima's house with a group of men. Usayd and Salma were also with him. Umar asked them to come out and swear allegiance. They refused. Zubair drew his sword and came out. Umar said: 'Get hold of this dog.' Salma Bin Aslam snatched the sword and threw it against the wall. Then they dragged Ali to Abu Bakr. Other Bani Hashim also followed him and were waiting to see what Ali would do. Ali was saying that he was the servant of Allah and the brother of the Holy Prophet. Nobody listened to him. They took him to Abu Bakr, who asked him to take the oath of allegiance to him. Ali said: "I am the most deserving person for this position, and I will not pay allegiance to you. It is incumbent on you to pay allegiance to me. You took this right from the Ansar based on your relationship with the Prophet. I also, on the same ground, protest against you. So be just. If you fear Allah, accept my right, as the Ansar did yours. Otherwise, you should acknowledge that you are intentionally oppressing me.' Umar said: 'We will not leave you until you swear allegiance.' Ali said: 'You have conspired well together. Today you support him, so that tomorrow he may return the caliphate to you. I swear by Allah that I will not comply with your request and will not take the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr). He should pay allegiance to me.' Then he turned his face toward the people and said: 'O Muhajirs! Fear Allah. Do not take away the right of authority of Muhammad's family. That right has been ordained by Allah. Do not remove the rightful person from his place. By Allah, we Ahle Bait have greater authority in this matter than you have. There is a man among you who has the knowledge of the Book of Allah (The Qur'an), the Sunna of the Prophet , and the laws of our Religion. I swear by Allah that we possess all these things. So do not follow yourselves lest you should stray from the truth.'" Ali returned home without offering allegiance and secluded himself in his house until Fatima died. Thereafter, he was forced to offer allegiance.



I can also provide you numerous Sunni Sources that state that Umar was responsible for giving Bibi Fatima a misscarriage, and she died a few months after because of this.

Bro, what Shias state is simply from your own books.

[Al-Irhaab]

i see someone has come back from doing mutah :rolleyes:

[Umm 'Umarah]

are you looking for information which is accessible via the internet?
would book recommendations be of any use to you?

[Fahad Hasnain]

here are a few more sources regarding Umar threating to set Imam Ali(as) & Bibi Fatima(as)'s house on fire. You are free to take them as truth or deny them.

Ali's qouted in DarkRed. Umar in Green. And "People" in blue

Abu Muhammad Abdullah Bin Muslim Bin Qutayba Bin Umar Al-Bahili Dinawari, who was one of your ulema and an official Qazi of the city of Dinawar, writes in his famous Ta'rikhu'l-Khulafate Raghibin wa Daulate Bani Umayya, known as Al-Imama wa's-Siyasa, Volume I, page 13: "When Abu Bakr learned that a group hostile to him had assembled in Ali's house, he sent Umar to them. When Umar shouted to Ali to come out and to swear allegiance to Abu Bakr, they all refused to come out. Umar collected wood and said 'I swear by Allah, Who has my life in His control, either you will come out, or I will set the house with all those in it on fire.' People said: 'O Abu Hafsa! Fatima is also present in the house.' He said: 'Let her be there. I will set fire to the house.' So all of them came out and offered allegiance, except Ali, who said: 'I have taken a vow that until I have compiled the Qur'an, I will neither go out of the house nor will I put on full dress.' Umar did not accept this, but the plaintive lamentation of Fatima and the snubbing by others, forced him to go back to Abu Bakr. Umar urged him to force Ali to swear allegiance. Abu Bakr sent Qanfaz several times to summon Ali, but he was always disappointed. At last Umar, with a group of people went to the door of Fatima's house. When Fatima heard their voices, she cried out 'O my father, Prophet of Allah! What tortures we are subjected to by the son of Khattab and the son of Abi Quhafa!' When the people heard Fatima's lamentation, some went back with their hearts broken, but Umar remained there with some others until finally they dragged Ali from the house. They took Ali to Abu Bakr, and told him to swear allegiance to him. Ali said: 'If I do not swear allegiance what will you do to me?' They said: 'We swear by Allah that we will break your neck.' Ali said: 'Will you kill the servant of Allah and the brother of His Prophet?' Umar said: 'You are not the brother of the Prophet of Allah.' While all this was going on, Abu Bakr kept silent. Umar then asked Abu Bakr whether he (Umar) was not following Abu Bakr's orders in this matter. Abu Bakr said that so long as Fatima was alive he would not force Ali to swear allegiance to him. Ali then managed to reach the grave of the Prophet, where, wailing and crying, he told the Prophet what Aaron had told his brother, Moses, as recorded in the Holy Qur'an: 'Son of my mother! Surely the people reckoned me weak and had well nigh slain me.' (7:150)

[Al-Irhaab]

kaafir kaafir shia kaafir :rolleyes:

[Fahad Hasnain]

i see someone has come back from doing mutah :rolleyes:
Alhamdulilah. This is our Muslim Ummah. We cannot even have a respectable discussion without slander from fellow Muslims.

[Rizwan]

The 'incident of the door' is an alleged incident in which Ali (ra) refused to swear loyalty to Umar (ra), so Umar and some other folk went to Ali's house and set in on fire, so Ali would come out and they could force him to swear allegience to Umar. Hz. Fatimah allegedly stood in the doorway of the burning house to prevent them from reaching Ali, at which point Umar and company threw her against a wall, causing her unborn child to die in her womb.

I really dont believe, for one thing if it was true it would be known more widely even among Sunnis. Something of that magnitude would not go unoticed in the Ummah of Rasulullah (saw). Secondly the love the Sahaba had for Rasulullah and each other is unprecedented. They fought, ate, starved and prayed together - gave a entire different meaning to the word "Brotherhood" and they expect us to believe that after all that sacrifice it was a Caesar-like power-grab? I dont buy it.

Does this story mention whose Bayah was being sought? i.e. Abu Bakr (ra) or Omar (ra) ?

(Razi means "pleased")

[Al-Irhaab]

allhamdullilah. This is our Muslim Ummah. We cannot even have a respectable discussion with slander from fellow Muslims.

sorry pro-pickers like urself who malign sahaba (ra) are not my brothers :rolleyes:

why do u see it as slander u think u get reward for going to the brothel non :rubeyes:

[Selamat]

are you looking for information which is accessible via the internet?
would book recommendations be of any use to you?

Books would be great as well, jazakhallahkhair.

[Fahad Hasnain]

If you knew the science of Ilm al-Rijal you would also know that the sources are either weak or outright forgeries.


As for the Shiachat it is a place full of misguidance anyone who wishes to save themselves from fitna should avoid it. Debating should be left to the Ulema and we have excellent books refuting the Shia.


And with Allah is all Success.

I have provided the sources. You are free to accept them or reject them alltogether. After all, the Holy Qur'an does state....Let there be no compulsion in religion.

[Al-Irhaab]

I have provided the sources. You are free to accept them or reject them alltogether. After all, the Holy Qur'an does state....Let there be no compulsion in religion.


exactly so if u want to be a kaafir shiah, go somewhere where ur welcome like some red light district somewhere :rolleyes:

[Selamat]

Fahad, you gave some references, but questions which need to be asked remain: (1) Why, if Umar (ra) set Ali's (ra) house on fire, killed Hz. Fatimah's baby, and as a result her, did Sunnis scholars, as majority policy, ignore this? (2) If the above mentioned happened, why did Sunnis and the majority of Muslims still give baya to Umar and accept him as pious and just? (3) Why would Sunni scholars conspire to hide this incident? Perhaps if it had been Uthman (ra) who allegedly did this, we could say that it become a fashion to idealize him during the Ummayid dynasty, but only one Khattab ever became khalifa, so who would be interested in engineering this massive cover-up of Umar's alleged crimes against the Ahle-Bayt?

If one really thinks about it, all evidence points to this story being a latter-day Shia fabrication. Until you can provide me with a legitimate and reasonable explaination as to why Umar would do this and why it would be covered up, I will consider this incident to be a complete lie.

[Al-Irhaab]

Fahad, you gave some references, but questions which need to be asked remain: (1) Why, if Umar (ra) set Ali's (ra) house on fire, killed Hz. Fatimah's baby, and as a result her, did Sunnis scholars, as majority policy, ignore this? (2) If the above mentioned happened, why did Sunnis and the majority of Muslims still give baya to Umar and accept him as pious and just? (3) Why would Sunni scholars conspire to hide this incident? Perhaps if it had been Uthman (ra) who allegedly did this, we could say that it become a fashion to idealize him during the Ummayid dynasty, but only one Khattab ever became khalifa, so who would be interested in engineering this massive cover-up of Umar's alleged crimes against the Ahle-Bayt?

If one really thinks about it, all evidence points to this story being a latter-day Shia fabrication. Until you can provide me with a legitimate and reasonable explaination as to why Umar would do this and why it would be covered up, I will consider this incident to be a complete lie.

and to add to this... why was ali (ra) so scared when he was known to be the strongest and most brave and most skilled of all of the warriors of his time... :rolleyes:

[Rizwan]

Exactly...and to add to that further...this does not sound like Hazarat Ali (ra) speaking...

'O Muhajirs! Fear Allah. Do not take away the right of authority of Muhammad's family.
Where did the Prophet say his Family would rule after him? Islam is not a monarchy.

That right has been ordained by Allah.
WHERE? The Quran and Sunnah indicate the opposite. The Prophet (pbuh) was not a King, nor did he preach supremacy of blood- he preached equality.

Do not remove the rightful person from his place. By Allah, we Ahle Bait have greater authority in this matter than you have.

Notice the invention of the Shias, "We Ahle Bait". If Ahle Bait is the Family of the Prophet...then the daughter of Abu Bakr (ra) is the wife of Rasulullah! (saw), the daugher of Umar and Abu Sufyan are the wives of the Prophet! The daughter of the Prophet is the wife of Ali (ra)- So how can Ali (ra) say "We" and "You" in this matter, when they are all family and all are related?

There is a man among you who has the knowledge of the Book of Allah (The Qur'an), the Sunna of the Prophet , and the laws of our Religion. I swear by Allah that we possess all these things. So do not follow yourselves lest you should stray from the truth.'"

Again who is "we", this does not sound like the humility of Ali (ra) speaking, rather the arrogance of the Shia.

The very same "shiyan-e-ali" (Party of Ali) who did not support him when the time of trial came, the very same shia who are responsible for the deaths of Hasan and Hussen because they failed to show up on the day of battle! and they have been crying ever since because of the GUILT they feel for abandoning Hasan and Hussein (ra)

[al-ghazalli]

As Salam Alukum

In the Name of Allah the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate

Bismillah wal Hamdulilah was Salatu was Salam 'ala Sayyidina Rasul Allah.


Sidi Fafad Hasnain just a few makes I would like to point before I go indept with this topic in a few days inshallah.

Sidi if you were a true student of knowlodge then you would not be quoting from Peshawar Nights which is a joke, the book is full of distortions.

Secondly half the sources you quoted, you most likely didn't even bother to check if they infact existed? This is why learning deen from the internet is not the best way to gain knowlodge.

Ibrahim Bin Sa'd Saqafi narrates from Zuhri that Ali did not pay allegiance until six months after the Prophet's death, and the people did not have the courage to pressure him except after the death of Bibi Fatima.

Could you find the isnad for this statement, I couldn't

In any case, your own ulema insist that Ali's allegiance was not immediate but came only after some time had passed and then only when circumstances forced him to do so. Ibn Abi'l-Hadid, in his Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume II, page 18, narrates from Zuhri, from A'yesha, who said: "Ali did not offer allegiance to Abu Bakr for six months, and no one of the Bani Hashim offered allegiance until Ali did."

okay well if you knew our Ulema you would know that Ibn Abi'l-Hadid is a Mutazalite so he was from the ahl-bidah not from ahl as-Sunnah so it doesn't matter what he thought since he has no authority in Sunni Islam. The Nahjul Balagha is a forgery was it was declared a forgery over 1000 years ago by Imam Dhahabi (Rahimullah). How could this book be attributed to Ali (May Allah be Pleased with Him) when it has no isnad leading back to him.

Ahmad Bin A'sam-e-Kufi Shafi'i in Futuh, and Abu Nasr Hamidi, in Jam'a Bainu's-Sahihain report from Nafiy, quoting from Zuhri, who said: "Ali did not swear allegiance until six months after the Prophet's death."

Again no isnad found, if you list the narrators who repored this, it would make my life a little easier.

Abu Ja'far Baladhuri Ahmad Bin Yahya Bin Jabir Baghdadi, one of your reliable traditionists and historians, writes in his History that when Abu Bakr called Ali to swear allegiance, Ali refused. Abu Bakr sent Umar who went with a torch to set fire to Ali's house. Fatima came to the door and said: "O son of Khattab! Have you come to set my house on fire?" He said: "Yes, this is more effective than anything your father did."

A forgery Al-Nawawi said, "It is not established." Ibn Taimiyyah said mawdu, Al- Suyuti endorsed al-Nawawi's opinion ((Al-Da`ifah, no. 58)

I think you missed the first page where the noble Imam states himself that the statements are only valid they come through a sound isnad.

Inshallah this should suffice for now and I hope and pray it serves as a reminder to you sidi that unless you can check the sources yourself it is better to do dhikr rather then engage in useless debates. Do you not think our Ulema are aware of these lies...they have been refuted for 1000 years.

And take heed to the Prophet's (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) words narrated both in Shia and Sunni books of hadith; "It suffices a man to be a liar, if he narrates everything he hears"

And with Allah is all Success.

[.: Anna :.]

This is something nice about Umar bin al Khattab (radhiallahu anhu). The end hadith about sleeping under the tree is one of my favourites :inlove:
And may Allah guide the shia and lead them to repent for their slander of Rasoolallah :saw: beloved companions :mad: which is a dispicable act

Babar Ahmad: The Stone of Justice
06/07/2005
By Babar Ahmad

‘Umar came and people forgot the justice of Kisra,
Such was the legacy of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs…’
During the caliphate of Umar bin Al-Khattab (RA), Amr bin Al-Aas (RA) was appointed the Governor of Egypt. One of Amr’s first projects was to expand the main mosque of Cairo, which was at the time surrounded by the dwellings of ordinary Egyptians. Amr’s workers proceeded to buy the houses of the Egyptians so that they could be destroyed to pave the way for the expansion. All the people agreed to sell their houses except one Coptic Christian man. He refused to give up his home as it was of sentimental value to him. The matter reached all the way to Amr, so he asked to see the Copt. Amr offered the Copt double, triple and quadruple the value of his house but the Copt refused to sell it whatever the price. After much persuasion the Copt refused to budge so Amr became angry and ordered the Copt’s house to be destroyed by force and for him to be offered to take or leave its price.
The Copt was distraught and felt that he had been wronged by this new Muslim Governor of Egypt. Unsure who to seek help from he was eventually advised: “Go to Madinah and speak to the Caliph, Umar bin Al Khattab, for no man is wronged in his lands.” So the Copt decided to travel to Madinah to complain to the Caliph about how he had been unjustly treated by one of his governors. When he arrived in Madinah and asked to see the Caliph he was told, “Go to the Sacred Mosque of the Prophet (SAS) and there you will find a man sweeping the floor. Speak to him.” The Copt thus went to the Sacred Mosque hoping that its sweeper would be able to direct him to the Caliph.
When the Copt entered the Sacred Mosque, he found this man sweeping its floor so the Copt asked him if he could help him get to the Caliph. The Sweeper asked him, “And what business do you have to speak to the Caliph about?” The Copt replied, “I have been wronged by one of his governors so the people asked me to complain to the Caliph as he is a just man and no one is wronged in his lands,” and he related to the Sweeper the story of what had happened to his house in Cairo.
Having listened attentively to the Copt’s story, the Sweeper picked up a stone and with another stone he scratched two lines on it, one crossing the other at right angles. He gave the stone containing the lines to the Copt and told him to give it to the Governor of Egypt with the words, “This stone is from the Sweeper of the Sacred Mosque of Allah’s Messenger (SAS).” The Copt thought that the Sweeper was mocking him but the Sweeper reassured him to do as he said and his problem would be resolved. The Sweeper made no mention of the Caliph. The Copt thus returned to Egypt with the stone given to him by the Sweeper of the Sacred Mosque of Allah’s Messenger (SAS).
When the Copt arrived back in Egypt he went to Amr straight away and gave him the stone saying that it was from the Sweeper of the Prophet’s (SAS) Mosque in Madinah. No sooner had Amr seen the lines on the stone except that his face went pale in fright. Amr began to apologise profusely to the Copt and immediately ordered that the part of the mosque built over the Copt’s house must be rebuilt exactly as and where it was. Puzzled by this sudden change of heart in the Governor, the Copt asked Amr what the significance was of a simple stone with two lines on it. Amr thus related to him the story behind The Stone of Justice.
During their early adulthood in Makkah before the advent of the Prophet (SAS), Umar bin Al Khattab (RA) and Amr bin Al-Aas (RA) were the best of friends. They were also business partners, trading in fine Arabian horses. Once they received an order for a significant quantity of horses from King Numan, the Arab King of the Al-Mundhir Governate which, being under the rule of the Persian Empire was a buffer region between Arabia and Persia (represented today by parts of modern-day Iraq). King Numan made a down payment to Umar and Amr, who promptly set about finding and training horses to meet the King’s requirements. When the horses were ready, the two friends set off to Al-Mundhir to deliver them to their buyer, King Numan.
Whilst they were travelling through the desert in Al-Mundhir, they came across a royal entourage. It turned out to belong to a Persian prince, a son of the Emperor Kisra, who had come on a hunting expedition to Al-Mundhir. The Prince, upon sighting the fine Arabian horses, asked to see their owners. He offered to buy the horses from the two friends but was told by them that they had already been sold to a buyer, but that he could place a fresh order with them if he wanted to. The Prince doubled and trebled his offer but Umar and Amr refused to go back on their contract with King Numan, so they politely declined the Prince’s offers. After much haggling the pompous Prince grew impatient and ordered his guards to seize (without payment) the horses from the two men and to send them away.
Distraught, Umar and Amr were unsure of what to do. Local tribesmen advised them to travel to the capital of the Persian Empire itself and speak to the Emperor, Kisra, as he was a just man and no one was wronged in his empire. The two friends thus journeyed into Persia and, weary and dishevelled, eventually reached Kisra’s court. They complained to him that their horses had been stolen by a man who claimed to be a son of the Emperor. Kisra listened to them intently and then asked the two men to return to him the following day whilst he looked into the matter. He ordered his palace courtiers to arrange hospitality for the two men, as guests of the Emperor.
The following day Umar and Amr went to Kisra and he came down to them from his throne, asking the two to accompany him. He led them to a courtyard where, lo and behold, they saw their stolen horses. Kisra asked them to confirm if these were their horses that the Prince had seized from them and if so, that they should check that they were okay. Umar and Amr carefully checked each horse and informed Kisra that everything was just fine. Kisra then profusely apologised to the two for what had happened and he asked them if he could be of any further assistance to them. They told him that they were satisfied now and would like to continue on their journey. Kisra ordered his staff to give the men some provisions and he guaranteed them safe passage until they left the precincts of his territory. Just before they left, Kisra asked the two to leave the palace grounds from their two different gates: the Eastern Gate and the Western Gate.
Umar bin Al Khattab left via the Eastern Gate and, to his astonishment, he saw hanging there half of the body of the Persian Prince, son of Kisra, as if he had been sawn in two. When he rejoined Amr, Amr told him that he had seen the other half of the Prince’s corpse hanging from the Western Gate. Kisra was not prepared to let a spoilt son of his damage his widespread reputation as the beacon of justice in the East. He not only wanted justice to be done, but he wanted that justice must be seen to be done.
Having related this story to the Copt, Amr bin Al Aas (RA), by now Governor of Egypt, told the Copt that the man sweeping the Sacred Mosque of the Prophet (SAS) was none other than the Caliph himself: Umar bin Al Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him. And what Amr understood from the two lines scratched on the stone was that if he did not return the house to the Copt then Umar would cut him not in two halves like the Persian prince was, but into four quarters. Since Amr knew that whenever Umar said something he meant it, he took no chances and ordered the Copt’s house to be rebuilt, albeit at the expense of destroying part of the newly built mosque. No sooner had the Copt seen with his own eyes the concept of justice amongst the Muslims that he accepted Islam immediately and gave his consent for the mosque grounds to remain on the same spot where his house used to be.
Justice is a bedrock of every successful nation, society and civilisation. Justice, especially when given to the poor and downtrodden, creates an atmosphere of secure, peaceful coexistence in which not only the people, but the society itself prospers for the good of humankind. Kisra’s intolerance of injustice, even if perpetrated by his own kith and kin, was one reason why the Persian Empire flourished as a superpower for over 500 years. Since the Emperor was just, all of his subjects were just and people felt safe in his lands. Had the Persian Empire not been conquered by a Muslim army whose soldiers established individual justice (through the fear of Allah) as well as societal justice, then it may have remained a world superpower until today. The Persians’ rejection of the Divine Message eventually led to the decay which destroyed their civilisation. When the Muslims arrived, people forgot the justice of the Persians. When Umar bin Al Khattab (RA) came, people forgot the justice of Kisra.
And what was the justice of Umar? Ink will dry and paper will finish before it is possible to describe all the living examples of justice established by the Prophet (SAS) and embodied in the legacies of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs who succeeded him. Yet one statement, made by a Roman, reveals a glimpse into the justice of Umar (RA), the second Caliph after the death of the Prophet (SAS). One afternoon a Roman emissary arrived in Madinah on important diplomatic business with the Caliph. When he enquired as to the whereabouts of Umar (RA), he was directed to a man sleeping peacefully under a tree: with no bodyguards, no weapons, no fortifications and no security. The Roman messenger marvelled at this sight: the sight of the leader of millions of people sleeping peacefully under a tree without a care in the world. He then remarked his famous words that remain etched into history until today: “O Umar! You ruled. You were just. Thus you were safe. And thus you slept.”
Such is the security that justice brings to both the ruler and the ruled. Umar (RA) was just to his people so he had nothing to fear from them. He rendered to everyone their rights so they had no grievances against him. His people slept in peace. So he too slept in peace. How the world yearns for this sleep!
O Umar! If only you would return,
To spread justice so the world would learn,
That even a stone of your justice,
Would rescue it from this fathomless abyss.

SOURCE: FreeBabarAhmad

[Rizwan]

This is something nice about Umar bin al Khattab (radhiallahu anhu). The end hadith about sleeping under the tree is one of my favourites :inlove:
And may Allah guide the shia and lead them to repent for their slander of Rasoolallah :saw: beloved companions :mad: which is a dispicable act

Babar Ahmad: The Stone of Justice
06/07/2005
By Babar Ahmad

‘Umar came and people forgot the justice of Kisra,
Such was the legacy of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs…’
During the caliphate of Umar bin Al-Khattab (RA), Amr bin Al-Aas (RA) was appointed the Governor of Egypt. One of Amr’s first projects was to expand the main mosque of Cairo, which was at the time surrounded by the dwellings of ordinary Egyptians. Amr’s workers proceeded to buy the houses of the Egyptians so that they could be destroyed to pave the way for the expansion. All the people agreed to sell their houses except one Coptic Christian man. He refused to give up his home as it was of sentimental value to him. The matter reached all the way to Amr, so he asked to see the Copt. Amr offered the Copt double, triple and quadruple the value of his house but the Copt refused to sell it whatever the price. After much persuasion the Copt refused to budge so Amr became angry and ordered the Copt’s house to be destroyed by force and for him to be offered to take or leave its price.
The Copt was distraught and felt that he had been wronged by this new Muslim Governor of Egypt. Unsure who to seek help from he was eventually advised: “Go to Madinah and speak to the Caliph, Umar bin Al Khattab, for no man is wronged in his lands.” So the Copt decided to travel to Madinah to complain to the Caliph about how he had been unjustly treated by one of his governors. When he arrived in Madinah and asked to see the Caliph he was told, “Go to the Sacred Mosque of the Prophet (SAS) and there you will find a man sweeping the floor. Speak to him.” The Copt thus went to the Sacred Mosque hoping that its sweeper would be able to direct him to the Caliph.
When the Copt entered the Sacred Mosque, he found this man sweeping its floor so the Copt asked him if he could help him get to the Caliph. The Sweeper asked him, “And what business do you have to speak to the Caliph about?” The Copt replied, “I have been wronged by one of his governors so the people asked me to complain to the Caliph as he is a just man and no one is wronged in his lands,” and he related to the Sweeper the story of what had happened to his house in Cairo.
Having listened attentively to the Copt’s story, the Sweeper picked up a stone and with another stone he scratched two lines on it, one crossing the other at right angles. He gave the stone containing the lines to the Copt and told him to give it to the Governor of Egypt with the words, “This stone is from the Sweeper of the Sacred Mosque of Allah’s Messenger (SAS).” The Copt thought that the Sweeper was mocking him but the Sweeper reassured him to do as he said and his problem would be resolved. The Sweeper made no mention of the Caliph. The Copt thus returned to Egypt with the stone given to him by the Sweeper of the Sacred Mosque of Allah’s Messenger (SAS).
When the Copt arrived back in Egypt he went to Amr straight away and gave him the stone saying that it was from the Sweeper of the Prophet’s (SAS) Mosque in Madinah. No sooner had Amr seen the lines on the stone except that his face went pale in fright. Amr began to apologise profusely to the Copt and immediately ordered that the part of the mosque built over the Copt’s house must be rebuilt exactly as and where it was. Puzzled by this sudden change of heart in the Governor, the Copt asked Amr what the significance was of a simple stone with two lines on it. Amr thus related to him the story behind The Stone of Justice.
During their early adulthood in Makkah before the advent of the Prophet (SAS), Umar bin Al Khattab (RA) and Amr bin Al-Aas (RA) were the best of friends. They were also business partners, trading in fine Arabian horses. Once they received an order for a significant quantity of horses from King Numan, the Arab King of the Al-Mundhir Governate which, being under the rule of the Persian Empire was a buffer region between Arabia and Persia (represented today by parts of modern-day Iraq). King Numan made a down payment to Umar and Amr, who promptly set about finding and training horses to meet the King’s requirements. When the horses were ready, the two friends set off to Al-Mundhir to deliver them to their buyer, King Numan.
Whilst they were travelling through the desert in Al-Mundhir, they came across a royal entourage. It turned out to belong to a Persian prince, a son of the Emperor Kisra, who had come on a hunting expedition to Al-Mundhir. The Prince, upon sighting the fine Arabian horses, asked to see their owners. He offered to buy the horses from the two friends but was told by them that they had already been sold to a buyer, but that he could place a fresh order with them if he wanted to. The Prince doubled and trebled his offer but Umar and Amr refused to go back on their contract with King Numan, so they politely declined the Prince’s offers. After much haggling the pompous Prince grew impatient and ordered his guards to seize (without payment) the horses from the two men and to send them away.
Distraught, Umar and Amr were unsure of what to do. Local tribesmen advised them to travel to the capital of the Persian Empire itself and speak to the Emperor, Kisra, as he was a just man and no one was wronged in his empire. The two friends thus journeyed into Persia and, weary and dishevelled, eventually reached Kisra’s court. They complained to him that their horses had been stolen by a man who claimed to be a son of the Emperor. Kisra listened to them intently and then asked the two men to return to him the following day whilst he looked into the matter. He ordered his palace courtiers to arrange hospitality for the two men, as guests of the Emperor.
The following day Umar and Amr went to Kisra and he came down to them from his throne, asking the two to accompany him. He led them to a courtyard where, lo and behold, they saw their stolen horses. Kisra asked them to confirm if these were their horses that the Prince had seized from them and if so, that they should check that they were okay. Umar and Amr carefully checked each horse and informed Kisra that everything was just fine. Kisra then profusely apologised to the two for what had happened and he asked them if he could be of any further assistance to them. They told him that they were satisfied now and would like to continue on their journey. Kisra ordered his staff to give the men some provisions and he guaranteed them safe passage until they left the precincts of his territory. Just before they left, Kisra asked the two to leave the palace grounds from their two different gates: the Eastern Gate and the Western Gate.
Umar bin Al Khattab left via the Eastern Gate and, to his astonishment, he saw hanging there half of the body of the Persian Prince, son of Kisra, as if he had been sawn in two. When he rejoined Amr, Amr told him that he had seen the other half of the Prince’s corpse hanging from the Western Gate. Kisra was not prepared to let a spoilt son of his damage his widespread reputation as the beacon of justice in the East. He not only wanted justice to be done, but he wanted that justice must be seen to be done.
Having related this story to the Copt, Amr bin Al Aas (RA), by now Governor of Egypt, told the Copt that the man sweeping the Sacred Mosque of the Prophet (SAS) was none other than the Caliph himself: Umar bin Al Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him. And what Amr understood from the two lines scratched on the stone was that if he did not return the house to the Copt then Umar would cut him not in two halves like the Persian prince was, but into four quarters. Since Amr knew that whenever Umar said something he meant it, he took no chances and ordered the Copt’s house to be rebuilt, albeit at the expense of destroying part of the newly built mosque. No sooner had the Copt seen with his own eyes the concept of justice amongst the Muslims that he accepted Islam immediately and gave his consent for the mosque grounds to remain on the same spot where his house used to be.
Justice is a bedrock of every successful nation, society and civilisation. Justice, especially when given to the poor and downtrodden, creates an atmosphere of secure, peaceful coexistence in which not only the people, but the society itself prospers for the good of humankind. Kisra’s intolerance of injustice, even if perpetrated by his own kith and kin, was one reason why the Persian Empire flourished as a superpower for over 500 years. Since the Emperor was just, all of his subjects were just and people felt safe in his lands. Had the Persian Empire not been conquered by a Muslim army whose soldiers established individual justice (through the fear of Allah) as well as societal justice, then it may have remained a world superpower until today. The Persians’ rejection of the Divine Message eventually led to the decay which destroyed their civilisation. When the Muslims arrived, people forgot the justice of the Persians. When Umar bin Al Khattab (RA) came, people forgot the justice of Kisra.
And what was the justice of Umar? Ink will dry and paper will finish before it is possible to describe all the living examples of justice established by the Prophet (SAS) and embodied in the legacies of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs who succeeded him. Yet one statement, made by a Roman, reveals a glimpse into the justice of Umar (RA), the second Caliph after the death of the Prophet (SAS). One afternoon a Roman emissary arrived in Madinah on important diplomatic business with the Caliph. When he enquired as to the whereabouts of Umar (RA), he was directed to a man sleeping peacefully under a tree: with no bodyguards, no weapons, no fortifications and no security. The Roman messenger marvelled at this sight: the sight of the leader of millions of people sleeping peacefully under a tree without a care in the world. He then remarked his famous words that remain etched into history until today: “O Umar! You ruled. You were just. Thus you were safe. And thus you slept.”
Such is the security that justice brings to both the ruler and the ruled. Umar (RA) was just to his people so he had nothing to fear from them. He rendered to everyone their rights so they had no grievances against him. His people slept in peace. So he too slept in peace. How the world yearns for this sleep!
O Umar! If only you would return,
To spread justice so the world would learn,
That even a stone of your justice,
Would rescue it from this fathomless abyss.

SOURCE: FreeBabarAhmad

Subhanallah, that post made this whole thread worthwhile! :up:

[.: Rashid :.]

Subhanallah...

Good article...

-Rashid

[Fahad Hasnain]

exactly so if u want to be a kaafir shiah, go somewhere where ur welcome like some red light district somewhere :rolleyes:
You slander the people praised by the Prophet(saaws) himself?

the Prophet rested on Ali's chest and said: "You have heard the holy verse: 'Those who believe and do good deeds, it is they who are the best of creatures.' (98:7) These are your Shia. My and your meeting place shall be at the fountain of Kauthar (in Paradise). When all created beings assemble for reckoning, your face will be bright, and you will be identified on that day as the leader of the bright-faced people."

The Holy Prophet said: "I swear by Him Who controls my life that this man (Ali) and his Shia shall secure deliverance on the Day of Resurrection." At that time the verse cited above was revealed.

The Prophet said to the Commander of the Faithful, Ali, "You and your followers (Shia) will come on the Day of Resurrection in such a condition that all of you will be pleased with Allah, and Allah will be pleased with you."

[Fahad Hasnain]

Fahad, you gave some references, but questions which need to be asked remain: (1) Why, if Umar (ra) set Ali's (ra) house on fire, killed Hz. Fatimah's baby, and as a result her, did Sunnis scholars, as majority policy, ignore this? (2) If the above mentioned happened, why did Sunnis and the majority of Muslims still give baya to Umar and accept him as pious and just? (3) Why would Sunni scholars conspire to hide this incident? Perhaps if it had been Uthman (ra) who allegedly did this, we could say that it become a fashion to idealize him during the Ummayid dynasty, but only one Khattab ever became khalifa, so who would be interested in engineering this massive cover-up of Umar's alleged crimes against the Ahle-Bayt?

If one really thinks about it, all evidence points to this story being a latter-day Shia fabrication. Until you can provide me with a legitimate and reasonable explaination as to why Umar would do this and why it would be covered up, I will consider this incident to be a complete lie.

They ignored it because of the oppression that was present during the Ummayad dynasty. People were killed for speaking out against oppression, and many hadith were fabricated. And over time, it was simply drilled into the head of most Muslims that the Caliphas, regardless of their actions were praised by the Prophet(saaws) and that they were great men. History or facts are in contridiction of the praise that is alledgely given to them by the Prophet(Saaws).

Umar was selected by default by Abu Bakr. There were many Sahabas that supported Ali(as) all throught, Ammar(ra) and Salman Farsi(ra) are two great Sahabas that come to mind.

And the oppression against the Ahlul Bayt is well documented. Ofcourse Imam Ali(as) was assissinated, Imam Hasan(as) was given poision by a "rival Muslim in power", Imam Husayn(as) was martryed by the tyrant Yazid, and the Imams that followed were either martryed or under house arrest.

It was a fight to gain power after the death of the Holy Prophet(saaws), and the people with the most material wealth came to power.

Sunnis accepted these Kaliphas as pious men is similar to Christians accepting Paul as some sort of saint. Both parties are simply in denial of facts.

To claim that these are Shia Fabrications in Sunni Books is absurd. This is like saying that the Prophecies of Prophet Muhammed(saaws) in Hindu & Parsi Scriptures are Muslim fabrications. That very idea is ludacris.

Does the thought ever occur to you, good brother, that there might be fabrication of Hadith during the Ummayad & Abbasid Dynasty? The People that ruled during that time were not good people at all.

You are free to believe what you please, but this rejection is because you have been brought up as a Sunni & to accept anything contrary to your beliefs just seems foriegn to you. I understand, that is very natural.

[Marwan]

In regards to the caliphate of Abu-Bakr & Umar (radhiyallahu a'nhum), the only one who refused to offer bay'a3 was the leader of Aws: Sa3d ibn Ibada (RA). His story can be read in the Bukhari hadith of Umar's (R) famous speech about the 'ayah of stoning.'

He didn't offer baya3 because he believed the power should be handed to a member of the Ansar.

Ali (karramallahu wajhu) didn't give bay3a because of his wife, Fatima (RA), and her dispute with Abu-Bakr (RA). He gave it shortly after her passing, Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.

The 'door incident' is a popular myth, and involves everyone whom the Rawafid hate and envy. Khalid (RA) allegedly dragged Ali (K) out of his home, and was (according to the Shi'ite) involved in a love triangle with a soldier in his ranks and a beautiful woman engaged to him. Umar (RA) is in the story simply because he exists.

Why is Khalid & Umar (R) by the Shi'ites? Simply put, they were relatives of Amr ibn A3s (RA), a key ally to Muawiya (R).

This smells like a Sunni-Shi'ite debate, so I'm going to run off.:D

[MMS]

on one hand the father pledges alligence because he was forced and allows the tyrant to batter his wife

on the other hand the son is matyred because he refuses to pledge alligence to a tyrant

:rolleyes:

and then the shias say they respect Ali (r.a) where is the respect in that :rubeyes:

us sunnis would believe that Ali(r.a) would chop off Umar's(r.a) head if he even spoke rudely to fatimah(r.a)

:torture::torture:

[Fahad Hasnain]

on one hand the father pledges alligence because he was forced and allows the tyrant to batter his wife

on the other hand the son is matyred because he refuses to pledge alligence to a tyrant

:rolleyes:

and then the shias say they respect Ali (r.a) where is the respect in that :rubeyes:

us sunnis would believe that Ali(r.a) would chop off Umar's(r.a) head if he even spoke rudely to fatimah(r.a)

:torture::torture:

Ali(as) was not a regular man. He was a wise man. "Chopping" off the head of Umar would do nothing except quench his thrist for personal revenge. There is no basis in Islam for that(i hope you knew that).

Ali(as) loved the Prophet(SAAWS) and loved Islam. If he took up arms, Islam would be completly divided & vunerable & non-Muslims could easily take advantage of this division & defeat us.

The adhan being recited throughout the world was more important to Ali(as) than his personal disputes.

These are all documented in Peak of Eloquence, all of his sermons, his letters, his sayings. But Sunnis wil reject them as "fabrications". These accusations are baseless.


And let me reititerate, that everything i stated is FROM SUNNI BOOKS.

[Fahad Hasnain]

In regards to the caliphate of Abu-Bakr & Umar (radhiyallahu a'nhum), the only one who refused to offer bay'a3 was the leader of Aws: Sa3d ibn Ibada (RA). His story can be read in the Bukhari hadith of Umar's (R) famous speech about the 'ayah of stoning.'

He didn't offer baya3 because he believed the power should be handed to a member of the Ansar.

Ali (karramallahu wajhu) didn't give bay3a because of his wife, Fatima (RA), and her dispute with Abu-Bakr (RA). He gave it shortly after her passing, Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.

The 'door incident' is a popular myth, and involves everyone whom the Rawafid hate and envy. Khalid (RA) allegedly dragged Ali (K) out of his home, and was (according to the Shi'ite) involved in a love triangle with a soldier in his ranks and a beautiful woman engaged to him. Umar (RA) is in the story simply because he exists.

Why is Khalid & Umar (R) by the Shi'ites? Simply put, they were relatives of Amr ibn A3s (RA), a key ally to Muawiya (R).

This smells like a Sunni-Shi'ite debate, so I'm going to run off.:D

Mashallah. Atleast you accept that Fatima(as) had disputes with Abu Bakr & Umar.

Do you know that she said that she wil curse them in every prayer till she passes away? Do you know that she said she will complain to the Prophet(saaws) in the afterlife for what they(Abu Bakr, Umar) did to her?

Do you know that the Holy Prophet said on many occasions...

Whoever hurts Fatima, hurts me.

These people are responsible for oppressing the Holy Family of the Greatest Prophet sent to mankind. Yet Majority of Muslims still defend their crimes over the spectacular Ahlul Bayt of our Prophet(saaws).

[Al-Irhaab]

In regards to the caliphate of Abu-Bakr & Umar (radhiyallahu a'nhum), the only one who refused to offer bay'a3 was the leader of Aws: Sa3d ibn Ibada (RA). His story can be read in the Bukhari hadith of Umar's (R) famous speech about the 'ayah of stoning.'

He didn't offer baya3 because he believed the power should be handed to a member of the Ansar.

Ali (karramallahu wajhu) didn't give bay3a because of his wife, Fatima (RA), and her dispute with Abu-Bakr (RA). He gave it shortly after her passing, Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.

The 'door incident' is a popular myth, and involves everyone whom the Rawafid hate and envy. Khalid (RA) allegedly dragged Ali (K) out of his home, and was (according to the Shi'ite) involved in a love triangle with a soldier in his ranks and a beautiful woman engaged to him. Umar (RA) is in the story simply because he exists.

Why is Khalid & Umar (R) by the Shi'ites? Simply put, they were relatives of Amr ibn A3s (RA), a key ally to Muawiya (R).

This smells like a Sunni-Shi'ite debate, so I'm going to run off.:D


the narration that ali (ra) gave bayah 6 months later is the weakest of all the narrations abt ali (Ra) givig bayah, the stronger one is that he initially did give bayah and then after the death of fatima (ra) he reaffirmed it for those who had doubt... otherwise the sahaba (ra) would not have allowed anyone not to give bayah and live there freely...

as for the debate there is no debate, muslims are truthful, shiahs are pro-picking munafiqeen who wish to follow the shaitan like their ther munafiqeen friends....i fail to see any debate here.. :rolleyes:

[Fahad Hasnain]

If you are seriously in search for the truth. I would suggest that you read these books. They are all available online or you can buy them.

http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/

http://www.al-islam.org/guided/

http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/index.htm

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm


Or you can ignore me & these books, and continue to believe what you were taught. That is fine.

Assalam U Alekum.:up:

[Al-Irhaab]

If you are seriously in search for the truth. I would suggest that you read these books. They are all available online or you can buy them.

http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/

http://www.al-islam.org/guided/

http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/index.htm

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm


Or you can ignore me & these books, and continue to believe what you were taught. That is fine.

Assalam U Alekum.:up:

people tend to ignore kerb crawlers or report them to the police rather then take islamic knowledge from them... :rolleyes:

as one of the famous ulema said dont take anything from the raafidah becase they are liars...

[Abu Mus'ab]

If you are seriously in search for the truth. I would suggest that you read these books. They are all available online or you can buy them.

http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/

http://www.al-islam.org/guided/

http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/index.htm

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm


Or you can ignore me & these books, and continue to believe what you were taught. That is fine.

Assalam U Alekum.:up:
Useless kaafir quoting from a filthy kaafir shia source,that rubbish belongs in the bin,along with all the filthy murtad shias.

[Marwan]

Mashallah. Atleast you accept that Fatima(as) had disputes with Abu Bakr & Umar.

Do you know that she said that she wil curse them in every prayer till she passes away? Do you know that she said she will complain to the Prophet(saaws) in the afterlife for what they(Abu Bakr, Umar) did to her?

Do you know that the Holy Prophet said on many occasions...

Whoever hurts Fatima, hurts me.

These people are responsible for oppressing the Holy Family of the Greatest Prophet sent to mankind. Yet Majority of Muslims still defend their crimes over the spectacular Ahlul Bayt of our Prophet(saaws).

No, she never said that.

Don't you remember me on the "Are the Shia Kafirs?" thread. Remember the butt-whooping you got?

If you don't remember, don't worry. You're on the verge of going down memory lane one more time.

[Marwan]

Majority of Shia polemics come from 'Nights in Peshawar.' The compilations of Bihar ul-Anwar and Usu al-Kafi were done by Iranians!

It's amazing that, while Shi'ism supposedly originated in Kufa, it is the Pakistanis & Iranians continue to grind the axe and fuel the Rawafid ideology.

I'ms tarting to doubt the Shi'ites in Iraq have any connections to these people.

[ZainabS]

kaafir kaafir shia kaafir :rolleyes:

If we were Kafirs, would be keeping fasts, paying zakat, going for Hajj/Umrah, Praying namaz... hmm aite mate..

and whats Mut'aa gotta do with it.. why you beging it?

[Abu Mus'ab]

If we were Kafirs, would be keeping fasts, paying zakat, going for Hajj/Umrah, Praying namaz... hmm aite mate..

and whats Mut'aa gotta do with it.. why you beging it?
You're right you're not kaafirs,you're murtads.

[Fahad Hasnain]

No, she never said that.

Don't you remember me on the "Are the Shia Kafirs?" thread. Remember the butt-whooping you got?

If you don't remember, don't worry. You're on the verge of going down memory lane one more time.

Butt whopping? So we are playing a game for our personal glory now?

I apologize, i thought we were having a intellectual discussion on the truth of Islam, not a personal glorification match.

If you are concerned with the former, then yea you won, enjoy the fruits of your "victory", whatever they may be.

I am here simply to discuss, not to give or recieve a "butt whopping". If you think you can have a mature convo, then i will continue, but otherwise i have no intentions to continue.

[Al-Irhaab]

If we were Kafirs, would be keeping fasts, paying zakat, going for Hajj/Umrah, Praying namaz... hmm aite mate..

and whats Mut'aa gotta do with it.. why you beging it?

qadiyanis pray and do other 'islamic' acts... munafiqeen used to pray with the prophet (SaW) even built their own 'mosque'

i ant ur mate... why u getting offended with the mention of mutah, u think its a good deed like praying and fasting :rolleyes:

no im not begging for it, ive got no reason to go around kerb crawling... on the other hand i read about how much reward you think you get for doing mutah, dont u have some sort of narration where if u do it once ur on the level of hassan (ra) and hussein (rA) and twice on the level of ali (ra) and three times on the level of the prophet (saW)? so its nothing apparantly for u to be ashamed of? so a question for u have u committed mutah? how much did u get paid for it, sorry what i meant to say was how much dowry did u get, how long did he get to be with u for , sorry what i meant to say was how long was he 'married' to u for?

[ZainabS]

qadiyanis pray and do other 'islamic' acts... munafiqeen used to pray with the prophet (SaW) even built their own 'mosque'

i ant ur mate... why u getting offended with the mention of mutah, u think its a good deed like praying and fasting :rolleyes:

no im not begging for it, ive got no reason to go around kerb crawling... on the other hand i read about how much reward you think you get for doing mutah, dont u have some sort of narration where if u do it once ur on the level of hassan (ra) and hussein (rA) and twice on the level of ali (ra) and three times on the level of the prophet (saW)? so its nothing apparantly for u to be ashamed of? so a question for u have u committed mutah? how much did u get paid for it, sorry what i meant to say was how much dowry did u get, how long did he get to be with u for , sorry what i meant to say was how long was he 'married' to u for?

Dude who said i was getting offeneded with Muta'a... you know what im not gonna try explaing it 2 you.. whats the point.. you guys dont listen anyway..

lol.. aite.. what you just said up there was pathetic... i have nothing 2 say 2 you..

[Fahad Hasnain]

Dude who said i was getting offeneded with Muta'a... you know what im not gonna try explaing it 2 you.. whats the point.. you guys dont listen anyway..

lol.. aite.. what you just said up there was pathetic... i have nothing 2 say 2 you..

Why do you bother?. You cannot fight or defeat ignorance. Let it rot in its own filth & misery.

[Abu Mus'ab]

Why do you bother?. You cannot fight or defeat ignorance. Let it rot in its own filth & misery.
That defines you and your shia dirt perfectly.

[ZainabS]

You know by talking 2 each other like that.. were all as bad as each other. which is sad.. so just let it go.. and concentrate on other things other than Shia Sunni stuff

[Abu Mus'ab]

The day shias become Muslim that day only will the problems stop,while the continue in their kufr they'll forever remain nothing but kuffar.

[Fahad Hasnain]

You know by talking 2 each other like that.. were all as bad as each other. which is sad.. so just let it go.. and concentrate on other things other than Shia Sunni stuff

If you look thru this thread, i have avoided all their comments. I don't have time to get into a insult match with them and my religion forbids it.

I'm saying that you cannot reason with ignorance. So do not waste your time.

[Umar`]

What incident of the door?

Umar (ra) forced Ali (ra), for bayah? where did you hear that?

Listen to this... http://www.edars.com/

This is Umar Ibn Al Khattab (ra) we are talking about! The kind of man..who when the Muslims were only 39 in number..and Umar (ra) embraced Islam (im sure you all know the story...)...he made no secret of his Islam...infact he went straight to the door of Abu Jahl and shouted "Oh Abu Jahl! I AM A MUSLIM!". Abu Jahl was shocked, He slammed the door again and said "Abu Jahl...I am a Muslim!" so Abu Jahl not knowing what else to do..hit the door shut on Umar....and then just to make sure Abu Jahl got the message...he went round the back entrance...slammed on the back door and shouted "Abu Jahl...I...OMAR IBN AL KHATTAB AM A MUSLIM NOW!" :coolbro:

Thats the kind of Passion and Devotion he had, Rasulullah (saw) himself gave Umar the title of "Farooq" - the One who Seperates TRUTH from FALSEHOOD! May Allah (swt) be Razi with with this noble Sahaba.

SubhanAllah! never heard that before, mashaAllah!

[sapphire_blue]

me too, sends goosebumps all over my body subhanaAllah!



Same here! Was reading what Rizwan wrote and I just had a big grin on my face - the love these Sahabas had for our Prophet (SAW). SubhanAllah.

[Umar`]

This is something nice about Umar bin al Khattab (radhiallahu anhu). The end hadith about sleeping under the tree is one of my favourites :inlove:
And may Allah guide the shia and lead them to repent for their slander of Rasoolallah :saw: beloved companions :mad: which is a dispicable act

Babar Ahmad: The Stone of Justice
06/07/2005
By Babar Ahmad

‘Umar came and people forgot the justice of Kisra,
Such was the legacy of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs…’
During the caliphate of Umar bin Al-Khattab (RA), Amr bin Al-Aas (RA) was appointed the Governor of Egypt. One of Amr’s first projects was to expand the main mosque of Cairo, which was at the time surrounded by the dwellings of ordinary Egyptians. Amr’s workers proceeded to buy the houses of the Egyptians so that they could be destroyed to pave the way for the expansion. All the people agreed to sell their houses except one Coptic Christian man. He refused to give up his home as it was of sentimental value to him. The matter reached all the way to Amr, so he asked to see the Copt. Amr offered the Copt double, triple and quadruple the value of his house but the Copt refused to sell it whatever the price. After much persuasion the Copt refused to budge so Amr became angry and ordered the Copt’s house to be destroyed by force and for him to be offered to take or leave its price.
The Copt was distraught and felt that he had been wronged by this new Muslim Governor of Egypt. Unsure who to seek help from he was eventually advised: “Go to Madinah and speak to the Caliph, Umar bin Al Khattab, for no man is wronged in his lands.” So the Copt decided to travel to Madinah to complain to the Caliph about how he had been unjustly treated by one of his governors. When he arrived in Madinah and asked to see the Caliph he was told, “Go to the Sacred Mosque of the Prophet (SAS) and there you will find a man sweeping the floor. Speak to him.” The Copt thus went to the Sacred Mosque hoping that its sweeper would be able to direct him to the Caliph.
When the Copt entered the Sacred Mosque, he found this man sweeping its floor so the Copt asked him if he could help him get to the Caliph. The Sweeper asked him, “And what business do you have to speak to the Caliph about?” The Copt replied, “I have been wronged by one of his governors so the people asked me to complain to the Caliph as he is a just man and no one is wronged in his lands,” and he related to the Sweeper the story of what had happened to his house in Cairo.
Having listened attentively to the Copt’s story, the Sweeper picked up a stone and with another stone he scratched two lines on it, one crossing the other at right angles. He gave the stone containing the lines to the Copt and told him to give it to the Governor of Egypt with the words, “This stone is from the Sweeper of the Sacred Mosque of Allah’s Messenger (SAS).” The Copt thought that the Sweeper was mocking him but the Sweeper reassured him to do as he said and his problem would be resolved. The Sweeper made no mention of the Caliph. The Copt thus returned to Egypt with the stone given to him by the Sweeper of the Sacred Mosque of Allah’s Messenger (SAS).
When the Copt arrived back in Egypt he went to Amr straight away and gave him the stone saying that it was from the Sweeper of the Prophet’s (SAS) Mosque in Madinah. No sooner had Amr seen the lines on the stone except that his face went pale in fright. Amr began to apologise profusely to the Copt and immediately ordered that the part of the mosque built over the Copt’s house must be rebuilt exactly as and where it was. Puzzled by this sudden change of heart in the Governor, the Copt asked Amr what the significance was of a simple stone with two lines on it. Amr thus related to him the story behind The Stone of Justice.
During their early adulthood in Makkah before the advent of the Prophet (SAS), Umar bin Al Khattab (RA) and Amr bin Al-Aas (RA) were the best of friends. They were also business partners, trading in fine Arabian horses. Once they received an order for a significant quantity of horses from King Numan, the Arab King of the Al-Mundhir Governate which, being under the rule of the Persian Empire was a buffer region between Arabia and Persia (represented today by parts of modern-day Iraq). King Numan made a down payment to Umar and Amr, who promptly set about finding and training horses to meet the King’s requirements. When the horses were ready, the two friends set off to Al-Mundhir to deliver them to their buyer, King Numan.
Whilst they were travelling through the desert in Al-Mundhir, they came across a royal entourage. It turned out to belong to a Persian prince, a son of the Emperor Kisra, who had come on a hunting expedition to Al-Mundhir. The Prince, upon sighting the fine Arabian horses, asked to see their owners. He offered to buy the horses from the two friends but was told by them that they had already been sold to a buyer, but that he could place a fresh order with them if he wanted to. The Prince doubled and trebled his offer but Umar and Amr refused to go back on their contract with King Numan, so they politely declined the Prince’s offers. After much haggling the pompous Prince grew impatient and ordered his guards to seize (without payment) the horses from the two men and to send them away.
Distraught, Umar and Amr were unsure of what to do. Local tribesmen advised them to travel to the capital of the Persian Empire itself and speak to the Emperor, Kisra, as he was a just man and no one was wronged in his empire. The two friends thus journeyed into Persia and, weary and dishevelled, eventually reached Kisra’s court. They complained to him that their horses had been stolen by a man who claimed to be a son of the Emperor. Kisra listened to them intently and then asked the two men to return to him the following day whilst he looked into the matter. He ordered his palace courtiers to arrange hospitality for the two men, as guests of the Emperor.
The following day Umar and Amr went to Kisra and he came down to them from his throne, asking the two to accompany him. He led them to a courtyard where, lo and behold, they saw their stolen horses. Kisra asked them to confirm if these were their horses that the Prince had seized from them and if so, that they should check that they were okay. Umar and Amr carefully checked each horse and informed Kisra that everything was just fine. Kisra then profusely apologised to the two for what had happened and he asked them if he could be of any further assistance to them. They told him that they were satisfied now and would like to continue on their journey. Kisra ordered his staff to give the men some provisions and he guaranteed them safe passage until they left the precincts of his territory. Just before they left, Kisra asked the two to leave the palace grounds from their two different gates: the Eastern Gate and the Western Gate.
Umar bin Al Khattab left via the Eastern Gate and, to his astonishment, he saw hanging there half of the body of the Persian Prince, son of Kisra, as if he had been sawn in two. When he rejoined Amr, Amr told him that he had seen the other half of the Prince’s corpse hanging from the Western Gate. Kisra was not prepared to let a spoilt son of his damage his widespread reputation as the beacon of justice in the East. He not only wanted justice to be done, but he wanted that justice must be seen to be done.
Having related this story to the Copt, Amr bin Al Aas (RA), by now Governor of Egypt, told the Copt that the man sweeping the Sacred Mosque of the Prophet (SAS) was none other than the Caliph himself: Umar bin Al Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him. And what Amr understood from the two lines scratched on the stone was that if he did not return the house to the Copt then Umar would cut him not in two halves like the Persian prince was, but into four quarters. Since Amr knew that whenever Umar said something he meant it, he took no chances and ordered the Copt’s house to be rebuilt, albeit at the expense of destroying part of the newly built mosque. No sooner had the Copt seen with his own eyes the concept of justice amongst the Muslims that he accepted Islam immediately and gave his consent for the mosque grounds to remain on the same spot where his house used to be.
Justice is a bedrock of every successful nation, society and civilisation. Justice, especially when given to the poor and downtrodden, creates an atmosphere of secure, peaceful coexistence in which not only the people, but the society itself prospers for the good of humankind. Kisra’s intolerance of injustice, even if perpetrated by his own kith and kin, was one reason why the Persian Empire flourished as a superpower for over 500 years. Since the Emperor was just, all of his subjects were just and people felt safe in his lands. Had the Persian Empire not been conquered by a Muslim army whose soldiers established individual justice (through the fear of Allah) as well as societal justice, then it may have remained a world superpower until today. The Persians’ rejection of the Divine Message eventually led to the decay which destroyed their civilisation. When the Muslims arrived, people forgot the justice of the Persians. When Umar bin Al Khattab (RA) came, people forgot the justice of Kisra.
And what was the justice of Umar? Ink will dry and paper will finish before it is possible to describe all the living examples of justice established by the Prophet (SAS) and embodied in the legacies of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs who succeeded him. Yet one statement, made by a Roman, reveals a glimpse into the justice of Umar (RA), the second Caliph after the death of the Prophet (SAS). One afternoon a Roman emissary arrived in Madinah on important diplomatic business with the Caliph. When he enquired as to the whereabouts of Umar (RA), he was directed to a man sleeping peacefully under a tree: with no bodyguards, no weapons, no fortifications and no security. The Roman messenger marvelled at this sight: the sight of the leader of millions of people sleeping peacefully under a tree without a care in the world. He then remarked his famous words that remain etched into history until today: “O Umar! You ruled. You were just. Thus you were safe. And thus you slept.”
Such is the security that justice brings to both the ruler and the ruled. Umar (RA) was just to his people so he had nothing to fear from them. He rendered to everyone their rights so they had no grievances against him. His people slept in peace. So he too slept in peace. How the world yearns for this sleep!
O Umar! If only you would return,
To spread justice so the world would learn,
That even a stone of your justice,
Would rescue it from this fathomless abyss.

SOURCE: FreeBabarAhmad
what a fantastic post, jazakAllah khayr, i love Umar RA so much.

[Al-Irhaab]

Dude who said i was getting offeneded with Muta'a... you know what im not gonna try explaing it 2 you.. whats the point.. you guys dont listen anyway..

lol.. aite.. what you just said up there was pathetic... i have nothing 2 say 2 you..

i know u wouldnt get offended ... i mean it is kerb crawling is something u guys find good and praiseworthy...

so u ever committed mutah with someone?

:rolleyes:

[ZainabS]

^ why? you interested in doing it... hmm 8-)

[Al-Irhaab]

^ why? you interested in doing it... hmm 8-)

nah aids is something i stay well clear way from..

im trying to find out what ur status is isnt it i mean u get rewarded for doing it.... so how much did he pay u? i mean what was the dowry? :rolleyes:

[rezzza]

The 'incident of the door' is an alleged incident in which Ali (ra) refused to swear loyalty to Umar (ra), so Umar and some other folk went to Ali's house and set in on fire, so Ali would come out and they could force him to swear allegience to Umar. Hz. Fatimah allegedly stood in the doorway of the burning house to prevent them from reaching Ali, at which point Umar and company threw her against a wall, causing her unborn child to die in her womb.

That hadith/incident sounds and I am pretty sure it is rubbish and made up.

[rezzza]

Majority of Shia polemics come from 'Nights in Peshawar.' The compilations of Bihar ul-Anwar and Usu al-Kafi were done by Iranians!

It's amazing that, while Shi'ism supposedly originated in Kufa, it is the Pakistanis & Iranians continue to grind the axe and fuel the Rawafid ideology.

I'ms tarting to doubt the Shi'ites in Iraq have any connections to these people.

The shiites of iran and iraq vary in their strands. THe iranian model was made by khomeni (it didnt exist before). I mean Wilayat al Faqih system. The iraqis apart from the iranian shia puppets iraqi clerics reject it. The puppet ones are also engaged in sunni liquidation as directed by Iran, since the iranians themselves been liquidating Sunnis in Iran. They are called incmplete muslims/Munafiqs and kuffar. I have an interview video of shia cleric saying this about sunnis, since sunnis dont beleieve in the concept of imama.